Cyma parts search

[Rggkent901]

Hi, my name is Roger, and I live in Tenbury Wells in Worcestershire.

First of all, please realise that I have no previous experience of, or interest in watch repairs. I own a Cyma 36000 Automatic Chronometre, which was presented to my father by his employers in 1970. It has not worked for many years, but I have been extremely keen to restore it to working order

I contacted a local repairer who had the watch for an astonishing 21 months. I could provide a hideously long chain of emails, but initially he identified various problems, including main spring being too weak, cracked jewel on the balance wheel, and a worn centre pivot. Later, he observed that the balance staff was pitted, so he made a replacement part. He also fitted a new "stem". (You need to understand I don't really comprehend what the majority of these component names mean!). This repair process ground on incredibly slowly, with no end result, until he identified that the main problem all along was that the replacement spring and barrel (and I have no idea how these were sourced other than they were not genuine Cyma parts) would not work correctly. In his words "when the tension on the spring increases the latch on this barrel opens and the spring slips". At this point (December 2023) he was stumped.

He passed the watch to a friend in the Birmingham Jewellry Quarter, who could not find a solution, and during this year my repairer, from time to time, tried various "manual" fixes, all to no avail. At one point he thought that he had managed to solve the mainspring issue, but when I went to collect the watch on Tuesday this week, he announced that the spring was "pinging" again, and that he was now abandoning the repair (without charge, thank the Lord).

He claimed that his fundamental problem was that he could not source a barrel and spring to match the Cyma design. He described to me that the original barrel seemed not to be perfectly round but slightly oval, and the type of spring used by Cyma is just not manufactured any more. "Give me the right barrel and spring and I can fix this in ten minutes, having disassembled and reassembled the watch on numerous occasions". 

So here I am, the watch sitting on my desk as I type this message. I discovered this forum by chance, and it immediately struck me that I might be able to find a suitable approach to finding the correct parts, or to establish that, indeed, this will not be possible

So I guess you will need precise information on the watch itself. There is no documentation, but last night I removed the cover, and copied out everything that I could see.

SYNCHRON SA

72 006 01

129 (inscribed vertically), then 9K 0.375 (which I suppose refers to the gold content)

A O K

Then in a diamond box, the numeral 6, horizontally. In a rectangle, 375. Then an X in a box, followed by another character in a box that I can't identify

Finally, and etched roughly by hand,  4/6860/3

I hope that this all will mean something to the undoubted experts on this forum

My fundamental question is whether a usable barrel and spring can be sourced and if so, from whom?

A secondary question is would anyone know of a capable repairer in my area to take on what should hopefully be a straightforward fitting, although I suppose I should consider using my previous repairer who could then recoup some money given the amount of work that has gone into the project. I am on good terms with him, we have never "fallen out" in any way, even given the 21 months that have elapsed!

Or by all means, just tell me that I have not got a snowball's chance in hell

 

 

 

 

 

[Nucejoe]

We need a pic of the movement to identify its caliber. 

 In case the forum did not allow posting pix , you can post on  YouTube or.....  and gives us the link to see the movement, we might need to see pic of the keyless. 

 

Rgds

 

[AndyGSi]

Movement should be an 814.01

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/226292540700

[mikepilk]

20 hours ago, Rggkent901 said:

So I guess you will need precise information on the watch itself. There is no documentation, but last night I removed the cover, and copied out everything that I could see.

Or, just post a picture. It would be really useful.

[Rggkent901]

OK, herewith a couple of photos of the movement. I hope they are precise enough

 

[mikepilk]

I can find little information on the Cyma/Tavannes R.844.01. It's not listed on the Jules Borel database, and Cousins list the barrel as discontinued, but I downloaded their documentation (see attached) 2064_Cyma 844.pdf 
Someone has written on Zod 86, and it does appear to be the same as the Zodiac 86 

For the Zodiac 86, Jules Borel lists the Barrel Complete is common on the following movements. 

Quote

He claimed that his fundamental problem was that he could not source a barrel and spring to match the Cyma design. He described to me that the original barrel seemed not to be perfectly round but slightly oval, and the type of spring used by Cyma is just not manufactured any more. "Give me the right barrel and spring and I can fix this in ten minutes, having disassembled and reassembled the watch on numerous occasions". 

It's hard to understand what the problem really is without examining the barrel and mainspring. I don't see how a barrel can become oval. Using the above list, looking up the mainspring for the AS 1652 just shows a 'normal' automatic spring

I think you need to find another watch repairer.

 

Edited August 29, 2024 by mikepilk

[AndyGSi]

Information for the Zodiac 86 spring appears to be all over the place.

On 8/28/2024 at 4:04 PM, Rggkent901 said:

In his words "when the tension on the spring increases the latch on this barrel opens and the spring slips".

Just re read your original post and not quite sure about his terminology but an automatic spring is supposed to slip, the question is at what point does it slip.

[Rggkent901]

Thankyou Mikepilk for uncovering some good leads on this. Could I ask the following?

1. You state that "it does appear to be the same as the Zodiac 86" - is this judgment based purely on the basic model description or some other method of comparison?

2. If so, are you reasonably certain that the various watches listed all share exactly the same "complete" barrel and cover (and spring)?

3. I've followed up on some of the providers of Zodiac parts, and they are pretty expensive. Are some of the other makes on the interchange list (and I have no idea what makes they are) a better bet to find the right part?

Forgive me if these questions are a bit dumb, but at the moment I'm drinking from the Fire Hydrant when it comes to trying to understand watches and their terminology, so I'm trying to feel my way through this without wasting people's time

[mikepilk]

Unless you plan to learn the skills and repair the watch yourself, I think you would be better contacting a competent repairer for a quote, rather than try to buy parts yourself. You can provide some of the information we have given here.

I don't know if we are allowed to recommend repairers, and I haven't used any, but here's a list a few repairers I have followed the work of :

https://watchguy.co.uk/

https://mitka.co.uk/

https://www.welwynwatches.co.uk/

[Nucejoe]

 I have some NOS parts to zodiac 86 & 88 , and have seen some NOS in my late watchmakers stuff.

So if you make a sure list of all parts you need , I,ll take a look and inform you.

Prices listed above are crazy expensive, I am sure they are  not as expensive here.

Must say,  shipping international is crazy expensive here, instead , anything from zero to one kilogram cost the same, around 50 USD.

Your watch left the manufacturer premises adjusted to Chronometer standard, I don't know how to check if it still maintains Chronometer precision. , not when a non runner. 

If it's not running  with Chrono precision, you might want to just bring it back to life ,and forget about  Chrono high precision.

Just a thought.