Westclox, my first pocket watch repair

[Neverenoughwatches]

Changed my game today, while waiting to see how my current project fares on power reserve i fancied something different.  15 minutes of fiddling around trying to remove the stem after dropping the power. Looking at anything that resembled a button lever or latch. Under the glass bezel is a lever at the rhs edge, hold the stem and pull the latch down let the crown slip through your fingers to unwind the mainspring.  The stem release had me bamboozled for a little while, after seeing what moved while tugging at the stem after removing a peephole screw in the full plate bridge i noticed the locking bar wasn't thick enough to take the full width of the end of the stem. A small hooky tool is used to pull up what i think is a notched bar this releases the stem. More to come after my cuppa

[oldhippy]

Check the balance tips for wear and balance cups. The tips need to be as sharp as a new pencil.  

[Neverenoughwatches]

16 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Check the balance tips for wear and balance cups. The tips need to be as sharp as a new pencil.  

Thanks OH, i did similar with a Timex a couple of months ago. Seemed quite straightforward.  

So nice not to need a micro scope, just look at that stud pin, its like a dumbell bar for a mouse .  I can see the attraction of pocket watches , this is like working on a clock for me

[Neverenoughwatches]

Improved inner coils with this little tool, if anyone can guess what they really are ?

[RichardHarris123]

Hair straighteners, I meant curlers.

Edited September 4, 2024 by RichardHarris123

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Hair straighteners, I meant curlers.

Not that you or me need either but yes i think they are vintage mini hair curling tongs. The big version of these were warmed up and then used, these small ones only 4 or 5 inches long maybe had to be held with a cloth. Could be completely wrong but now they are mainspring coils curling tongs.

[oldhippy]

8 hours ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Hair straighteners, I meant curlers.

You beat me to it. 

[nevenbekriev]

Rich, 'curling' or shaping mainspring is useless thing. Put it in the barrel, wind it to the end, then take it out and see  what it looks like - it will be the same as it was before the shaping. What You can do is to heat the spring to let say 270 degr celsius and hold it for 2 hours at this temperature. You will be amazed from the change in the shape. But don't expect much  more amplitude - almost no change there.

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, oldhippy said:

You beat me to it. 

I'm thinking you dont require any either OH unless you have a mainspring to adjust. 

1 hour ago, nevenbekriev said:

Rich, 'curling' or shaping mainspring is useless thing. Put it in the barrel, wind it to the end, then take it out and see  what it looks like - it will be the same as it was before the shaping. What You can do is to heat the spring to let say 270 degr celsius and hold it for 2 hours at this temperature. You will be amazed from the change in the shape. But don't expect much  more amplitude - almost no change there.

Thanks Nev, the reason for reshaping was the arbor didnt hook or sit center of the barrel. I'm interested to know what prolonged heating to the full spring will do though ??

[mbwatch]

18 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

this is like working on a clock for me

These dollar movements (Westclox, Ingersoll, Ingraham) are probably more like clocks than watches overall.

[Neverenoughwatches]

16 minutes ago, mbwatch said:

These dollar movements (Westclox, Ingersoll, Ingraham) are probably more like clocks than watches overall.

Absolutely,  my first pocket watch. I couldn't say if this was big but handwinding the mainspring into this 19mm barrel, thats as big as small watch, was................. different .

[mbwatch]

25 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Absolutely,  my first pocket watch.

Then you're ready to jump from this clunky Westclox to a fine Swiss quarter repeater.

[Neverenoughwatches]

51 minutes ago, mbwatch said:

Then you're ready to jump from this clunky Westclox to a fine Swiss quarter repeater.

Haha not quite, i really like the clunky stuff.

[nevenbekriev]

11 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

... I'm interested to know what prolonged heating to the full spring will do though ??

When the spring is set and it's diameter has got smaller, heating it will enlarge the spring to it's original diameter. As the springs have memory, they say. Enlarging will happen immediately  when heated. Long time heating will take out the hydrogen atoms that has got with the time inside the structure of the steel and cause it to be crunchy.

[Neverenoughwatches]

40 minutes ago, nevenbekriev said:

When the spring is set and it's diameter has got smaller, heating it will enlarge the spring to it's original diameter. As the springs have memory, they say. Enlarging will happen immediately  when heated. Long time heating will take out the hydrogen atoms that has got with the time inside the structure of the steel and cause it to be crunchy.

Interesting stuff Nev. I use a lot of plastics in my job, this also has a memory going back to its formation. Dents reform to the plastic's original shape when heated. 

Bit late in the year for it but "SPRING CLEANING " with lighter fluid in a tealight case and a mini ultrasonic

Second clean, still dirty !

.....8 pieces to fit under this plate including the winding pinion and time setting lever,  veerrry interesting........ not sure about this clunky pocket watch lark .

[rjenkinsgb]

I just realised that looks to be the same movement as the Ingersoll Triumph one I did a few weeks back!

 

 

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

21 minutes ago, rjenkinsgb said:

I just realised that looks to be the same movement as the Ingersoll Triumph one I did a few weeks back!

 

 

 

Looks very similar Rob, i have a few of those. This one says made in Canada.

The balance and barrel are switched over and the time setting on the westclox looks more ancient. How did you find it, the winding mech on this is tight , difficult to wind up, the spring was a big hefty thing. 

[rjenkinsgb]

The winding side is OK, considering the size of the spring. The time setting is very stiff, despite thoroughly cleaning and oiling the centre wheel hub.

This is one of the last bits from my fathers estate; he had about a dozen pocket watches but I sold most of them, as I had no spare time or interest for them back in the early 80s.

[Neverenoughwatches]

33 minutes ago, rjenkinsgb said:

The winding side is OK, considering the size of the spring. The time setting is very stiff, despite thoroughly cleaning and oiling the centre wheel hub.

This is one of the last bits from my fathers estate; he had about a dozen pocket watches but I sold most of them, as I had no spare time or interest for them back in the early 80s.

Thanks For the reply Rob. The wheel pinions made me laugh, i wonder if thats where the name comes from these are just pins diametically placed around the wheel hubs ( aluminium hubs that support the pivots, the escape wheel pivot was sliding inside the hub , amazing quality i think Dollar watches were overpriced ). I was unsure as to the cannon pinion looked friction fitted , i didnt try seperating it from the center wheel and cleaned them both in situ. Timing was a long way out - 800s/d and the inner coils of the spring are also catching the side of the loosly termed regulator pins, no knee bend terminal curve so i thought i would make one , just adding that now. Two pieces of equipment to shi definitely ow, the movement holder is extremely good for PWs, easy to handle and loads of cutout underneath for working both sides at once and the balance holder , traps the roller between a compound tapered slot , keeps the balance held then the whole unit can be picked up looked at worked on etc. I definitely recommend both of these for working on PWs , the MH was about £20 and the bal. holder came with a job lot of tools but I've seen them separately for about a tenner. Mine needs the top re-finishing.

A little hack, slide paper under the hs for your anchor tweezers to rest on while adjusting

[rjenkinsgb]

Seeing that movement with the barrel bridge in place, it does look quite different to the one I have.

5 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

The wheel pinions made me laugh, i wonder if thats where the name comes from these are just pins diametically placed around the wheel hubs

Very likely! I'd never thought of that, but it makes total sense.

 

Both the movement and balance holders look useful; I've never seen either of those before.

Mine may be slightly newer, as it has brass pinions rather than the lantern style?

 

[mbwatch]

5 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I was unsure as to the cannon pinion looked friction fitted

They're usually a simple gear friction fitted onto the dial side, but able to be levered off to separate the center wheel. But that's not the source of setting friction. On the back of the center wheel pinion are a couple of washers, possibly cupped, that supply the friction. 

When you get the hands on, you might find that cleaning machines have loosened up the friction and it won't keep time until you stake that washer back to be tight enough. This has happened on almost every dollar movement I have worked on.

Edited September 6, 2024 by mbwatch

[Neverenoughwatches]

This  westclox pocket watch is running much better with a dedicated end curve added. I'm now able to regulate it much closer to accurate time without the hs bumping the regulator about that !...... I'm thinking of modifying the fixed hs spacing that can fit a dozen springs. Yet to see what the lift angle should, at default 52° the amp is managing around 150° it also looks visibly low but reserve is very good Friday 14.00 - Sunday 20.00 and it was still ticking.

This handy site has helped me date the almost 100 year old " Clunker " new name courtesy of @mbwatch to around 1928 by way of bow, pendant, hand shape and the only paper dial in the " Pocket Ben " series of Westclox.  I do enjoy some research, and really enjoying this different side of basic repair on " Clunkers " .

https://clockhistory.com/westclox/products/pocketwatch/index.html#:~:text=The History of Westclox Pocket,and first advertised in 1921.

Edited September 9, 2024 by Neverenoughwatches

[Neverenoughwatches]

I have to say the westclox is starting to get on my t..s now. The hairspring just did not have enough room to breath so i introduced a terminal curve which it didn't have or rather not good enough to allow rate adjustment without the coils touching. The regulator was then in the way of the hairspring but was easily fixed by reducing the fixed pins. I couldn't understand why the watch did not have an external time setting function. It does but poorly designed, pulling the pendant activates a bar with a sliding pin inside it, a sloped slot on the bar draws the pin to one side that brings the timesetting wheels into engagement. The pin also has the help a plain flat spring set into the top plate to help draw the pin into position. Problem is looks like the time set has never worked, i couldn't pull the pendant at the start of disassembly and even after adding more slope, more polishing and grease to encourage the pin to slide its still very stiff to pull the pendant . More work needed to this 100 year movement,  again i think it was overpriced at a dollar. I think the actual figure was $1.59 in 1929.

[Razz]

22 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I have to say the westclox is starting to get on my t..s now. The hairspring just did not have enough room to breath so i introduced a terminal curve which it didn't have or rather not good enough to allow rate adjustment without the coils touching. The regulator was then in the way of the hairspring but was easily fixed by reducing the fixed pins. I couldn't understand why the watch did not have an external time setting function. It does but poorly designed, pulling the pendant activates a bar with a sliding pin inside it, a sloped slot on the bar draws the pin to one side that brings the timesetting wheels into engagement. The pin also has the help a plain flat spring set into the top plate to help draw the pin into position. Problem is looks like the time set has never worked, i couldn't pull the pendant at the start of disassembly and even after adding more slope, more polishing and grease to encourage the pin to slide its still very stiff to pull the pendant . More work needed to this 100 year movement,  again i think it was overpriced at a dollar. I think the actual figure was $1.59 in 1929.

Great pics! I gave to agree with you 100% on westclocks movements being a PITA.

[Neverenoughwatches]

4 hours ago, Razz said:

Great pics! I gave to agree with you 100% on westclocks movements being a PITA.

When attempting one, plan to fix all the design and manufacturing defects.