I’ve got a couple old tools that I have no idea what they are

[Oannes]

I have two tools in the following photographs. One is missing some major components and is marked K&D and has something to do with a balance. The question would be what is it and should I look for the rest of it because obviously some parts are missing. The other is some sort of tool that looks like it’s also to bend the balance or adjust something, I tried to put items in for scale to help. Any assistance is greatly appreciated. 
 

[mbwatch]

The hook tool looks like it is intended to grab the slot in a hairspring collet to adjust it while mounted to the balance cock, but it seems too big unless it is meant for clocks rather than watches. I have seen other tools of the same shape & design, but with the opening closer to 1mm for pocket watches.

[oldhippy]

I think that hook is for putting the wheels into there pivot holes between the clock plates. 

[gpraceman]

16 hours ago, Oannes said:

I have two tools in the following photographs. One is missing some major components and is marked K&D and has something to do with a balance. The question would be what is it and should I look for the rest of it because obviously some parts are missing. The other is some sort of tool that looks like it’s also to bend the balance or adjust something, I tried to put items in for scale to help. Any assistance is greatly appreciated. 
 

On the first tool, I was just chatting with a watchmaker friend of mine about hairspring collet adjusting tools.  As @mbwatch indicated, it is to adjust the collet position.  You approach the collet slot from the side, slipping it under the hairspring and inserting the straight portion of the hook into the collet slot.  He indicates that you can do that operation without removing the balance wheel from the cock, if you are careful enough.  He's sending me the hook tool and another type of tool that fits down over the end of the balance staff and has a tooth that fits into the collet slot.

The 2nd tool looks to me to be a truing caliper.  Maybe it can accommodate different pivot sizes with the different rods.  Usually, with truing calipers, there would be an adjustable arm that you would reference as you spin the wheel to determine the high and low spots.

Edited September 9, 2024 by gpraceman

[Oannes]

Thanks, that’s a big help. Another mystery solved.  I’m optimistic that someone will have a complete version of that one that looks like it’s a truing caliper. 

 

[gpraceman]

On 9/9/2024 at 4:13 PM, Oannes said:

Thanks, that’s a big help. Another mystery solved.  I’m optimistic that someone will have a complete version of that one that looks like it’s a truing caliper. 

 

If that is a truing caliper, it is of a design that I haven't seen.  What does it look like on the other side?  Is there a screw hole for a truing arm to mount to?

[Oannes]

Thanks, that’s a big help. Another mystery solved.  I’m optimistic that someone will have a complete version of that one that looks like it’s a truing caliper. 

 

[Oannes]

This is the best I could do. I also showed how that portion is on a spring where I can push it in with my finger, and those are the parts that are stored in the threaded container attached to the main body from the original photos.

[gpraceman]

Curious.  I looked though some old K&D catalogs, but couldn't find that tool.

https://kanddinverto.weebly.com/catalogs-and-price-lists.html

[rjenkinsgb]

What's inside the tubular end? It has a screw or pin visible in the side, as if something should be located in it?

[Oannes]

[Oannes]

It’s more like a locating pin for instance of something was inserted than twisted to lock it in no screws. Nothing on the backside. Plus, there doesn’t seem to be any way to lock the spring portion that holds a pivot. It’s a bit strange. It’s almost like it’s used to set a pivot into a balance by pushing with your finger.  I had a thought while typing this I grabbed this part from my staking set, which is also K&D and it fits perfectly. The mystery continues.

[RichardHarris123]

I don't know but I'm sure it's not for truing, nothing to reference against. 

[KarlvonKoln]

That caliper: might it be part of a pocket watch sized roller remover collection?

[gpraceman]

2 minutes ago, KarlvonKoln said:

That caliper: might it be part of a pocket watch sized roller remover collection?

Interesting thought.  Put one of those beaver teeth roller table removers in the one side.

[rjenkinsgb]

I wonder if it is some custom variation of the K&D Midget staking tool, less the base it would have fitted on to?

There is a thread on those here:

 

 

[Oannes]

3 hours ago, gpraceman said:

Put one of those beaver teeth roller table removers in the one side

I tried that and it wouldn’t fit. It was too tall.

[Waggy]

It looks to me like its a a tool for pushing out something from something (balance staff??), but as it's closed ended it would be no good for inserting the new one as the pivot would shear off - or maybe the picture is misleading and there is a hole for the pivot to hide in?

My vote is for some kind of friction fit remover/installer doohickey

 

[Oannes]

20 hours ago, Waggy said:

It looks to me like its a a tool for pushing out something from something (balance staff??), but as it's closed ended it would be no good for inserting the new one as the pivot would shear off - or maybe the picture is misleading and there is a hole for the pivot to hide in?

My vote is for some kind of friction fit remover/installer doohickey

 

There is a hole for pivots in that punch/pressing part.  Funny part is you can’t lock it down.  Maybe it is for pressing on hairspring collets or something that needs light pressure?? See the ends?

[Neverenoughwatches]

3 hours ago, Oannes said:

There is a hole for pivots in that punch/pressing part.  Funny part is you can’t lock it down.  Maybe it is for pressing on hairspring collets or something that needs light pressure?? See the ends?

I was looking for something just like this not so long ago for pressing hs collets and rollers onto a staff. I eventually settled on a bike chain link remover and a modified micrometer both of which look similar to your tool but with a screw adjustment. I'm pretty sure its balance staff related , those holes in the side of the stakes serve a purpose . For clearing out a broken pivot in the same way as truing nibs, they also help to give a pivot room inside the stakes. If it was for truing a balance wheel the hole in the tip where the pivot fits into would be cup shaped to hold the meatier cone of the pivot while truing, so take a look at that. A fitted reference for truing i find isn't always necessary, you can actually use your finger resting on the frame. Dont think its that though, you'd expect to see a screw funcion to clamp the staff, i do think its for pressing parts onto a staff.

[Love2FindWatches]

I have this tool but it’s complete. Not sure what it is and hoping that mine might help to solve the mystery? 

[spectre6000]

Photos of whatever part/s is/are missing?

[Love2FindWatches]

On 10/1/2024 at 6:24 PM, Love2FindWatches said:

I have this tool but it’s complete. Not sure what it is and hoping that mine might help to solve the mystery? 

 

[gpraceman]

On 10/3/2024 at 4:41 PM, Love2FindWatches said:

 

Looks like a roller table remover.

[mbwatch]

45 minutes ago, gpraceman said:

Looks like a roller table remover.

It sure does. But then also the punch drives so far down past the jaws and that doesn't quite make sense for a roller remover. Maybe this is a balance staff remover where the jaws support the balance arms and that punch presses out the staff. Its cross hole suggests it's expecting to encounter a broken pivot.