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Waggy Distinguished Member

Waggy

Posted
Posted

Thought I would start a new thread called "Alternative to...."

I invite you to post your thing and for others to post an alternative thing or a home made alternative.

I'll start the ball rolling with I saw a tool @Viking using on his YouTube channel to remove split crowns and thought I must have one - but they are crazy expensive. Looking at the mechanism its not too different from a set of nail clippers. Anyone have any alternatives or know a way to modify or 3D print an alternative? Pictures below of what I am talking about:

image.png.168e219095beea3e51d62a5a1c8f34ce.png

image.png.e80427fe0e3e73e5c2aaf75b7cd1331b.png

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JohnR725 Distinguished Member

JohnR725

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, Waggy said:

Looking at the picture of the Bergeon and Horotec, they look to be the same tool with a different name printed on, I wonder where they are buying them from?

this is actually quite common as Bergeon at least up until relatively modern times was in the business of selling things that they did not manufacture. So typically they would purchase tools supplies whatever and put their name on them. Although if you look at their website now I think due to the fact that companies are no longer making a lot of watch repair tools they have now taken up manufacturing tools.

Then for something like this I wonder if the Chinese are making it?

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Neverenoughwatches Distinguished Member

Neverenoughwatches

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Waggy said:

Thought I would start a new thread called "Alternative to...."

I invite you to post your thing and for others to post an alternative thing or a home made alternative.

I'll start the ball rolling with I saw a tool @Viking using on his YouTube channel to remove split crowns and thought I must have one - but they are crazy expensive. Looking at the mechanism its not too different from a set of nail clippers. Anyone have any alternatives or know a way to modify or 3D print an alternative? Pictures below of what I am talking about:

image.png.168e219095beea3e51d62a5a1c8f34ce.png

image.png.e80427fe0e3e73e5c2aaf75b7cd1331b.png

I thought we used presto tools for this ?

24 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

What about a cheap hand remover but with the centre removed so you'd end up with the Bergeon 4344-9.

image.png.d3e240f47136f70a09a0bd98f887f396.png

image.thumb.png.25ba863cebd87397fcb83ac4d83843fb.png

Lol i was in the middle of suggesting the same thing 3 hours ago but then suddenly realised i was on a promise 🤣 just came back to my reply and see you thought the same tool. 

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AndyGSi Distinguished Member

AndyGSi

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Lol i was in the middle of suggesting the same thing 3 hours ago but then suddenly realised i was on a promise 🤣 just came back to my reply and see you thought the same tool. 

I expected 'being on a promise' has a different meaning to you than it does to me 🤨

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gpraceman Super WRT Addict

gpraceman

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, Waggy said:

Thought I would start a new thread called "Alternative to...."

I invite you to post your thing and for others to post an alternative thing or a home made alternative.

I'll start the ball rolling with I saw a tool @Viking using on his YouTube channel to remove split crowns and thought I must have one - but they are crazy expensive. Looking at the mechanism its not too different from a set of nail clippers. Anyone have any alternatives or know a way to modify or 3D print an alternative? Pictures below of what I am talking about:

image.png.168e219095beea3e51d62a5a1c8f34ce.png

image.png.e80427fe0e3e73e5c2aaf75b7cd1331b.png

I would have loved to have such a tool when I recently popped off the stem from my grandfather's Elgin with monocoque case, but the tool is way too expensive.  I tried my cheapo Presto tool and it didn't work.  Resorted to using end cutter pliers, carefully getting the jaws under the crown.  A bit of pressure and the stem popped off.

The other challenge was getting the crystal off.  I used one of those claw crystal lifts (cheap version of a Bergeon 4266).  The crystal stubbornly didn't want to come off.  So, I had to tension it a bit more.  Got it off, but the crystal cracked.  The alternative for the claw type crystal lift for me is a Mido Ocean Star tool.  Got one from a watchmaker friend of mine.  Practiced with the old crystal and that looks to be a much better solution.  The Seiko S-14 tool set looks to be another option.  Not sure if you can find the Mido or Seiko tool new.  I do see them on eBay, but probably not too frequently.

s-l1601.png

s-l1600.png

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Nucejoe Distinguished Member

Nucejoe

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Couldn't a presto be used, they're not cheap but at least duel purpose. 

 Design of the tool waggy showed is wrong , as it puts stress on  the crown's female threads which might strip it.

The stem itself if accessible !     best be carefully grabbed , as oppose to any method or tool that exerts force on female thread of the crown .

 We see lots crown & stem  broken  by the owner. 

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Malocchio WRT Addict

Malocchio

Posted
Posted

Seiko S-14 is a more gentle alternative to the claw type. You're not supposed to tighten it to the point that the crystal releases (cracks). You first apply enough pressure for the ring to hold the crystal. Then you tighten it a bit more and wedge the crystal off with a case knife as pictured in the manual. These are affordable and abundant in Japanese auction sites. 

Screenshot_2024-09-15-23-02-33-917_com.google.android_apps.docs-edit.thumb.jpg.bbe4a1ecb60be4f25fa68497c408223d.jpg

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Neverenoughwatches Distinguished Member

Neverenoughwatches

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

 Design of the tool waggy showed is wrong , as it puts stress on  the crown's female threads which might strip it.

The stem itself if accessible !     best be carefully grabbed , as oppose to any method or tool that exerts force on female thread of the crown .

 We see lots crown & stem  broken  by the owner. 

Pulling the stem from out of weak brass threads of a crown tube sounds very possible if the crown doesn't have a steel inner with a plated or solid material wrap.

1 hour ago, gpraceman said:

I would have loved to have such a tool when I recently popped off the stem from my grandfather's Elgin with monocoque case, but the tool is way too expensive.  I tried my cheapo Presto tool and it didn't work.  Resorted to using end cutter pliers, carefully getting the jaws under the crown.  A bit of pressure and the stem popped off.

The other challenge was getting the crystal off.  I used one of those claw crystal lifts (cheap version of a Bergeon 4266).  The crystal stubbornly didn't want to come off.  So, I had to tension it a bit more.  Got it off, but the crystal cracked.  The alternative for the claw type crystal lift for me is a Mido Ocean Star tool.  Got one from a watchmaker friend of mine.  Practiced with the old crystal and that looks to be a much better solution.  The Seiko S-14 tool set looks to be another option.  Not sure if you can find the Mido or Seiko tool new.  I do see them on eBay, but probably not too frequently.

s-l1601.png

s-l1600.png

This is where the Robur comes in with its curvy male and female dies, no grabbing going on and usable on any height of acrylic crystal.  

9 minutes ago, Malocchio said:

Seiko S-14 is a more gentle alternative to the claw type. You're not supposed to tighten it to the point that the crystal releases (cracks). You first apply enough pressure for the ring to hold the crystal. Then you tighten it a bit more and wedge the crystal off with a case knife as pictured in the manual. These are affordable and abundant in Japanese auction sites. 

Screenshot_2024-09-15-23-02-33-917_com.google.android_apps.docs-edit.thumb.jpg.bbe4a1ecb60be4f25fa68497c408223d.jpg

Seems like a good idea when the crystal wont quite release, i wouldn't use a case knife though,  too risky for case damage even with protection. Just something to lever between the case and lifter, a simple chisel shaped delrin probe would suffice or two as opposite levers.

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gpraceman Super WRT Addict

gpraceman

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

This is where the Robur comes in with its curvy male and female dies, no grabbing going on and usable on any height of acrylic crystal.

How does that remove/insert a crystal from a monocoque case?

1 hour ago, Malocchio said:

You're not supposed to tighten it to the point that the crystal releases (cracks).

Screenshot_2024-09-15-23-02-33-917_com.google.android_apps.docs-edit.thumb.jpg.bbe4a1ecb60be4f25fa68497c408223d.jpg

Cracking the crystal was not my intention, of course.  I tightened the claw to get a good grip but had to keep tightening it until I was able to pull off the crystal.  Hadn't thought of using something to pry between the claw and the case.  Anyway, the claw type lift seems too likely to damage a crystal.  If not cracking the crystal, leaving marks where the claws bit into the acrylic.  The compression type wrenches seem to be a much gentler option.

Edited by gpraceman
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