Fitting loose seconds hand with rare finish

[mrkrsl]

I recently straightened a crooked seconds pinion. Now I’m in phase-two of the agony getting the seconds hand to function on a Cal. 601 Omega Genève.

The hand (white painted, quite unusual) is too loose. It lacks any tube on the underside and has with perhaps only 0.1mm of metal protruding, so I can’t crimp it. It’s effectively just a hole. This is how it arrived on my bench. Correctly positioned, the hand will fall off. Pushed too far it binds on the minute hand/cannon pinion.

I’ve tried gently manipulating the brass on the underside of the hand with tweezers. This did seem to improve the friction fit, but positioning it caused this to fail and it remains too loose.

So, what next?

I wonder if my straightening the pinion effectively polished it. So abrading it somehow is one potential fix. That doesn’t sound right though. I expect that the soft brass hand is most likely the issue. I could try to manipulate the hole and somehow peen it, but that sounds tricky, and I don’t want to damage the paint. I though I could apply a very small dot of epoxy and when cured ream a new hole. Thought this would seem a little drastic.

I wondered if anyone has any ideas before I make anything worse?

Edited September 15, 2024 by mrkrsl

[AndyGSi]

Please provide photos.

[mrkrsl]

19 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

Please provide photos.

I added images to my opening post, both sides of the offending hand.

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, mrkrsl said:

I recently straightened a crooked seconds pinion. Now I’m in phase-two of the agony getting the seconds hand to function on a Cal. 601 Omega Genève.

The hand (white painted, quite unusual) is too loose. It lacks any tube on the underside and has with perhaps only 0.1mm of metal protruding, so I can’t crimp it. It’s effectively just a hole. This is how it arrived on my bench. Correctly positioned, the hand will fall off. Pushed too far it binds on the minute hand/cannon pinion.

I’ve tried gently manipulating the brass on the underside of the hand with tweezers. This did seem to improve the friction fit, but positioning it caused this to fail and it remains too loose.

So, what next?

I wonder if my straightening the pinion effectively polished it. So abrading it somehow is one potential fix. That doesn’t sound right though. I expect that the soft brass hand is most likely the issue. I could try to manipulate the hole and somehow peen it, but that sounds tricky, and I don’t want to damage the paint. I though I could apply a very small dot of epoxy and when cured ream a new hole. Thought this would seem a little drastic.

I wondered if anyone has any ideas before I make anything worse?

Nothing special to do here matey ,done this many times with generic stock hands used on movements that have missing or damaged hands. Reduce the hole with appropriate domed stakes then broach out carefully. If you have a good hand gauge this will help determine the correct size needed and speed up the process. You can do this no problem fella 

[AndyGSi]

I would have expected more of a tube but as @Neverenoughwatches said I think you'll just have to make it work.

The alternative is to look for a replacement.

[rehajm]

Yes, domed punch. I’ve successfully used a pin vise but only when there’s a long tube. Not sure you’ll get a purchase on that small bit…a bit of kapton tape on the stump might help save the finish

Edited September 15, 2024 by rehajm

[mbwatch]

4 minutes ago, rehajm said:

Yes, domed punch. I’ve successfully used a pin vise but only when there’s a long tube. Not sure you’ll get a purchase on that small bit…

Ah, good idea. I have ruined a couple of pocket watch subseconds hands by using a punch on long tubes. A pin vise didn't occur to me.

[rehajm]

5 minutes ago, mbwatch said:

Ah, good idea. I have ruined a couple of pocket watch subseconds hands by using a punch on long tubes. A pin vise didn't occur to me.

Yah- the Breitling in my icon photo has that hand. Like op it also has a fragile, non-reproducible finish on the the seconds hand… 

Edited September 15, 2024 by rehajm

[Neverenoughwatches]

36 minutes ago, rehajm said:

Yes, domed punch. I’ve successfully used a pin vise but only when there’s a long tube. Not sure you’ll get a purchase on that small bit…a bit of kapton tape on the stump might help save the finish

I just use paper on the finished side, I'm sure there is a post somewhere where i show how i do it in a slightly different way.

36 minutes ago, mbwatch said:

Ah, good idea. I have ruined a couple of pocket watch subseconds hands by using a punch on long tubes. A pin vise didn't occur to me.

Pin vise works very well for long tubes, broaching out to the correct size is a little more difficult if the hole is kept blind. 

[SwissSeiko]

If you have a lathe, a new tube could be made if needed

[Nucejoe]

22 hours ago, mbwatch said:

Ah, good idea. I have ruined a couple of pocket watch subseconds hands by using a punch on long tubes. A pin vise didn't occur to me.

Long tubes can be tightened like canon pinion.

Suppose the tube is 1mm long, use a nail clipper to tighten the tube at  .5mm .

You want the free end of the tube wide open , makes it easy to fit the hand on the seconds pinion.

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

On 9/15/2024 at 7:56 PM, Neverenoughwatches said:

just use paper on the finished side, I'm sure there is a post somewhere where i show how i do it in a slightly different way.

Found it, apologies it shows how i reduced a minute hand tube this time, works well for short tubes of hour and minute hands. The reinforcing ring for your second hand would need peening with domed stakes, think i will have a go and see how it turns out.

https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/29768-closing-hand-holes/?do=findComment&comment=252201

Edited September 16, 2024 by Neverenoughwatches

[mrkrsl]

Thanks all. Messages and thoughts much appreciated. The domed stake approach makes complete sense given there's only a small fraction of a tube. Or, an improvised one, I ought to say, having no staking set at the moment. Definitely the approach I'll try next.

[Cpashley1]

On 9/17/2024 at 3:51 PM, mrkrsl said:

Thanks all. Messages and thoughts much appreciated. The domed stake approach makes complete sense given there's only a small fraction of a tube. Or, an improvised one, I ought to say, having no staking set at the moment. Definitely the approach I'll try next.

Did this end up working for you?