Hello again from Lancashire

[mpe7383]

As the title suggests, I have introduced myself a while ago but have been inactive since, I'm about to ask for some advice from the military experts so it's only right that I introduce myself properly first.

My love of watches has grown from my passion for 80s casios, when all the other cool kids had the fancy marlins, I had to make do with the embarrassing petrol station omac. I now have a large collection now to make up for time lost. In the process of collecting the digitals, one or two japanese mechanicals would be included which just got put to the side. Some years ago I thought I'd have a go at getting one sorted, it was a orient chronoace with a heavily corroded movement, over time and waiting for the right spares I managed to get it going, and is still going today.

I now have just as many mechanical watches as the digitals, mainly japanese but also swiss, german, russian, french. I am by no means an expert, am constantly learning and I am confident to service, source spares and carry out hobbiest level repairs, and yes, I've got plenty of movements in various states of repair waiting for the correct spares.

Now dear moderator, please forgive the waffle, I'll outline my query to the forum if you could direct me to the correct thread, this is my first ever venture into any forum so be gentle. I know you guys like pictures so I'll have a go...

I have recently acquired what I believe to be a dirty dozen watch and possibly the hard to find grana, the watch I have has a P dial, now I know that this is a reference to the lume, but I can't find any other images of a www grana with a P dial. Does this signify a re dial or is it a later issue. The other question is, if it is a genuine www grana, do I service it and try and polish out the scratches on the crystal or leave it as it is. The watch does run for about 30 seconds but the jewels are gummed up and does need servicing.

Greatful for any advice

[AndyGSi]

I'm not an expert on these but when you compare the dial to other examples there's something not quite right.

My particular points are the arrow and the numbers in general, particularly the 4.

To me a looks like a cross between a Grana & Buren

 

Edit

I have just found this and another which look similar to yours
but can't confirm which is the correct style of dial.

Edited October 1, 2024 by AndyGSi

[Nucejoe]

The movement is a good grade one.

I would service it, replace or at least polish the crystal. 

Rgds

[mikepilk]

If it's genuine, it's a valuable watch. I'm no expert on these, but from the pics I've seen, the casing and lettering on the case back appear correct. The movement is the correct KF320

I agree with @AndyGSi about the dial. There does seem to be two different designs - different fonts and different circles around the second hand.  But I haven't found a pic of another with the 'P' near the second hand. The British Forces who serviced the watches, did replace the radium, so as you suggest, maybe that is why the 'P' is there. 

The scratching on the acrylic looks very odd to me. How do you get patterns like that with very little damage to the case?  

Might be worth googling to try to find an expert on these watches.

Edited October 1, 2024 by mikepilk

[mpe7383]

Thanks for the responses so far, agreed, there seems to be a few variations of the fonts. I'll put in another picture with the crystal scratches, there is scratching on the bezel too. This came in a box loose with many many other watches all from the same era so damage may be just from bouncing around in the box.

[mikepilk]

From the pics I've seen, it all looks good and genuine to me. The only question is why the 'P' on the dial. 

The prices of these have rocketed recently. Bonhams sold one in February for £18K. You could send pics to some of the auction houses - Christies, Bonhams, see what they think.

[rehajm]

The case back also looks good…but that dial…just observing the Grana font is too thick compared to the original in addition to the differing 4 and seconds dial…hmmmm…

There weren’t many DD examples to begin with and who would have replaced the dial with a non-radium symboled and re-lumed? The movements are more common and found in other models so some tinkerer could have built it? Either you have some kind of franken or a rare albino double-horned unicorn…

I second the motion to check with the auction houses or maybe one of the military sellers ljke Song or Vintage Watch Specialist or Finest Hour

[mikepilk]

7 hours ago, rehajm said:

The case back also looks good…but that dial…just observing the Grana font is too thick compared to the original in addition to the differing 4 and seconds dial…hmmmm…

The font does look the same as the 'other' style

[rehajm]

3 hours ago, mikepilk said:

The font does look the same as the 'other' style

…to me the font is similar but the printing looks thicker and fuzzy…smaller gaps between letters . As was mentioned upthread something’s ‘off’…

…and just speculating about a Grana replacement dial: can anyone produce evidence of another? (Edit: Sorry, I just noticed the photo above is not OPs, so this is something out there…but what is the question… ) With the IWC DD it is common to see replacement dials. On the first run they used some kind of lacquer that dries and cracks, taking the rest of the dial with it. You don’t see too many of those in good shape-  the replacements are more common…

…finding a genuine Grana DD in an off lot would make a wonderful story if true. OPs bank account would be happy…I’m sending off the photo off to a few places for a look, so let’s see…

Edited October 2, 2024 by rehajm

[mpe7383]

Right, eventually found something on this website https://af0210strap.com/blogs/news/w-w-w-watches-on-a-f-0210-straps

[rehajm]

…that’s great! Looking like you have a real treasure! Interesting is the variation not just in all the differences in the dial but the switch to syringe hands…what went on at the factory, anyways? 

Edited October 2, 2024 by rehajm

[mpe7383]

Well I guess Iwont be servicing it then if it is genuine, although I'd be confident to do it, just think of the possible potential mishaps, damaging the hands/face during removal, losing something in the carpet, shearing a screw etc etc

[mikepilk]

Parts shouldn't be a problem, there should be some Certina/KF 320 movements around. Cousins have a surprising number of parts for Certina 320. They even have a "Timed hairspring"!

If it was mine, I'm not sure if I'd service it.  But I'd just polish the crystal, put a nice NATO strap on it, and admire it. 

 

[rehajm]

...so happy for you- good luck with it, mate. One more than I'll go quiet- Bonhams and the others are pleased when serviced from here...they're good with the DDs...

https://www.shwr.co.uk

[mikepilk]

3 minutes ago, rehajm said:

...so happy for you- good luck with it, mate. One more than I'll go quiet- Bonhams and the others are pleased when serviced from here...they're good with the DDs...

https://www.shwr.co.uk

I wasn't aware of this company. They are about a mile up the road from me.

[mpe7383]

I agree, the least i could do is try and make the crystal a bit more presentable.

 

[rehajm]

3 minutes ago, mikepilk said:

I wasn't aware of this company. They are about a mile up the road from me.

Why would you require the services of watch service my friend? 

3 minutes ago, mpe7383 said:

I agree, the least i could do is try and make the crystal a bit more presentable.

 

Does it run?

[mpe7383]

Just given crown three turns, dial up will run for about 10 seconds after gentle shake, dial down and she's away .... so had a go on the timegrapher

[rehajm]

9 minutes ago, mpe7383 said:

Just given crown three turns, dial up will run for about 10 seconds after gentle shake, dial down and she's away .... so had a go on the timegrapher

...so may just be in need of a service. I suppose it depends on what you intend to do with it. Sending it to auction its certainly worthy of a conversation about the appropriate level of restoration with a well known firm. If you're keeping it, with your story, putting it as is on display is a great option, too.  I am getting great satisfaction from working on my own DDs- they are simple hefty movements and as said upthread your movement is common and unlike some of the other DDs like the Cyma and Buren where there are some undocumented 'military' versions of parts...

Edited October 2, 2024 by rehajm

[mpe7383]

These are unchartered waters for me so at the moment I'm not sure what my intentions are, but for now I'll just enjoy it as it is. I've never really looked into the military watches so I'm also enjoying reading up on these.

These beauties in the same box

[mikepilk]

Wow there's some radiation from that pocket watch on the bottom left . My Geiger counter is sensing it down here in Watford 

Rather than try to polish out the deep scratches, I don't see why you shouldn't put a new acrylic crystal on the Grana. It would have had new crystal fitted throughout it's life.

If you do consider a service, how about asking Kalle at Chronoglide ?

Edited October 3, 2024 by mikepilk

[mpe7383]

Ok, I'm going to have a go at the crystal today, if it doesn't come out very well than like mikepilk says, a replacement shouldn't be a problem, with the current state of the crystal I've nothing to loose. Also this would mean I have done something with this watch that would bring satisfaction. I am not going to service the movement, this is potentially a highly sought after time piece (obviously professional authentication will be needed at some point so until then will always treat as potentially), and I as a novice am not immune to easily avoidable rookie mistakes and this isn't the watch to take those risks.

As to what I'll do with the watch I've had a think and for now I'll just keep it as it is and enjoy being in possession of such a watch. Ultimately though, will probably eventually getting it properly authenticated and serviced and if all correct selling. I do collect watches but not military watches, this is someones (potentially) holy grail watch but not mine and if this completes someones collection and I make a couple of quid then its a win win. But like I say, for now I'll enjoy having it and continuing reading up on these watches with one in front of me.

When I've had a go at the crystal I'll put in a picture but as I'm still on the introducing myself thread I'll move it over onto the show me your military watch thread which I think is more appropriate, I think I've said hello now.

But now is a good time to say this is exactly what I needed from the forum and I appreciate your knowledge and responses.

[rehajm]

https://www.bonhams.com/auction/29154/lot/35/grana-a-rare-stainless-steel-manual-wind-military-issue-wristwatch-with-promethium-p-dial-dirty-dozen-circa-1945/

…perhaps this watch?

Edited October 31, 2024 by rehajm

[mpe7383]

They are charging me £60 for photography, so far one over exposed picture, hoping they add some more.

[tIB]

That's an amazing find and a beautiful looking watch. Good luck with the auction...