8760 pocket watch movement 4th wheel issue

[Bigjay]

Can someone please help me with this issue, in that I have disassembled the movement up until the point of the train of wheels.  The 4th wheel with the extended pivot goes through the mainplate for the offset seconds hand, but is stuck in place with what looks like a second “cannon pinion” or some kind or hollow retaining tube.  The 4th wheel will not simply lift out.  I have looked at some videos on this movement and none seem to have the little hollow retaining tube and wonder if it has sheered off the underside of the dial?

The 4th wheel pivit seems quite dirty where this tube has come off but unsure if I should reinstall it when I reassemble the watch movement as it does seem quite right being there.

[RichardHarris123]

It looks a bit long but is it the pipe from the seconds hand?

Edited October 19, 2024 by RichardHarris123
Typo again.

[Bigjay]

Hi Richard, do you mean pipe?  It was stuck over the 4th wheel pivot on the dial side of the main plate so im assuming its maybe a sheath to go through the dial to stop the 4th wheel pivot wobbling?  I just dont see it on any other videos as the 4th wheel just comes out easily.  I was really concerned about bending or snapping the pivot but a bit of degreaser and the cannon pinnion presto tool got it off safely.

 

[mbwatch]

I agree - this looks like the pipe/tube broken off the seconds hand and remaining on the 4th wheel pivot. I don't think you would find any sort of other sheath to prevent it wobbling, since its jewel or bushing would be the pivot diameter within about +0.02mm.

[RichardHarris123]

Yes, I  meant pipe. I edited it but somehow it didn't save.  Was the seconds hand intact? 

[JohnR725]

as everyone else has suggested that's what's left the second hand. Somebody just separated the hand and if it was there was probably glued on. Or if it was there when you remove the hand then you broken off. But in a case tube is for the secondhand which is now missing.

[Bigjay]

Thanks all.  The hands of the watch im working on were broken or rusty so im assuming that this was attached to the seconds hand orginally.

i’ll be ordering new hands anyway when I can find out who made the movement.  The mainplate is only stamped with s swiss cross and the number 8760.  The keyless works are identical to  an Omega 8760 pocket watch so i’ll start with that for parts.  Although I have to say ive nevver anyone remove a seconds hand with a long tube attached to it in any videos.  

[Bigjay]

Right… slight problem in that I cannot identify the watch other than the below mark and as such cannot find the new hands for it….. any help please??

[RichardHarris123]

Measure the pivots. 

[rjenkinsgb]

The serial number on the plate is valid for an Omega, circa 1897:

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/omega-watch-co/1274457

 

[Bigjay]

8 minutes ago, rjenkinsgb said:

The serial number on the plate is valid for an Omega, circa 1897:

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/omega-watch-co/1274457

 

Thank you so much! As a complete newbie I am still unaware of the resources to help identify parts and movements!  This forum is great! Thanks all!

[JohnR725]

7 hours ago, Bigjay said:

’ll be ordering new hands anyway when I can find out who made the movement.

typically with a watch like this you're not going to get hands for specific watch you're going to have to find generic hands that fit a pocket watch.

[nevenbekriev]

If You need identification of the movement, then show pictures of the movement. You can not say if it is Omega only by the serial  number. The hand still may be assembled and used if the tube is still here and not deformed much

[Neverenoughwatches]

I also think more pictures are needed to identify this watch. Could be Omega as rob has suggested the number is valid , could also be valid for other brands. Pictures are the best way to go, some pocketwatch experts here that may have an idea if the keyless parts are beyond identifying.

[Bigjay]

4 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I also think more pictures are needed to identify this watch. Could be Omega as rob has suggested the number is valid , could also be valid for other brands. Pictures are the best way to go, some pocketwatch experts here that may have an idea if the keyless parts are beyond identifying.

I have photos of the keyless works if that will help?  The movement is currently disassembled so if there are photos of something in particular that anyone needs, let me know!

[AndyGSi]

Think this is nearly but not quite unless something is missing from the photo?

What size is it?

Edit

Or maybe this.

Double Edit

I think this answers the question that it's an Omega 19" from 1897 date as
advised by @rjenkinsgb and the part left in the movement is broken

https://urdelar.se/products/omega-19-cal-omega-19-lob?variant=32947186892885

Edited October 20, 2024 by AndyGSi

[nevenbekriev]

So this is Omega 19'''.  But are parts needed? All should be OK with the 4th wheel and the hand, just both parts of the hand need to be put back together.

[AndyGSi]

17 minutes ago, nevenbekriev said:

So this is Omega 19'''.  But are parts needed? All should be OK with the 4th wheel and the hand, just both parts of the hand need to be put back together.

This will need replacing.

[nevenbekriev]

Looks OK to me. I have seen many of this calibre.

[Bigjay]

54 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

This will need replacing.

This is definitely not a broken part, i have purposely left it there as followed a disassembly video where it was not necessary to remove it.

It is exactly the same as the in calibre that you provided a link for 

https://urdelar.se/products/omega-19-cal-omega-19-lob?variant=32947186892885

What I really need to be able to see is the removed seconds hand and 4th wheel from the same movement as i still cant see why the pipe was stuck to the 4th wheel extended pivot.  I am currently soaking the hands in evapo-rust to get a better look bur the seconds hand does not seem to have anything indicating that it broke away from the pipe part

I’m just so pleased to discover its an Omega pocket watch! My Dad left it to me and I could not see any Omega branding until AndyGSI provided the link and it describes the omega symbol as being stamped on the balance cock!! I completely missed it!!

[AndyGSi]

14 minutes ago, Bigjay said:

This is definitely not a broken part, i have purposely left it there as followed a disassembly video where it was not necessary to remove it.

Yes, I was comparing it to the Bestfit of the 19T1 so does look OK when compared to other 19"

[Bigjay]

3 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

Yes, I was comparing it to the Bestfit of the 19T1 so does look OK when compared to other 19"

Thanks so much for the link, it was really helpful!

[AndyGSi]

This is taken from a YouTube Video, how does it compare with your hand?

Edited October 20, 2024 by AndyGSi

[nevenbekriev]

9 minutes ago, Bigjay said:

What I really need to be able to see is the removed seconds hand and 4th wheel from the same movement as i still cant see why the pipe was stuck to the 4th wheel extended pivot.  I am currently soaking the hands in evapo-rust to get a better look bur the seconds hand does not seem to have anything indicating that it broke away from the pipe part

Just look at this (normal) hands and then compare with what You have left from You hand

[Bigjay]

Well I think that’s pretty conclusive! Broken pipe off the seconds hand it is.  My seconds hand is complete flat with nothing in the centre.  So grateful to you all for your help.  Learning so much every day in this new hobby.