Seiko 6309 can’t wind

[Glynconn]

Hi all, a newbie here starting with a Seiko 6309. Unable to manually wind the movement using a screwdriver via the ratchet wheel. Nothing happens. Have i got a main spring arbor that is worn or worn ratchet wheel? Before I put the ratchet wheel on, all the wheels move ok when I move the ms with my tweezers.thoughts grateful. Thanks 

[AndyGSi]

Welcome to the forum.

What have you done to the movement and what are you trying to do?

Photo will help with this and any future posts.

[RichardHarris123]

Hello and welcome from Leeds, England. 

[Glynconn]

Hi all, I have dismantled and cleaned all parts except for the main spring. I have no knowledge of the watch fault when I bought it from eBay. My reasoning was it needed a good clean and oil for it to work but maybe that was wrong. If the train of wheels move freely when I turn the mainspring barrel before placing the rachet wheel on top of the barrel, why can’t I manually wind the movement?

[Nucejoe]

Welcome to the WRT forum. 

Indicatations point to,

Broken mainspring OR spring eye disengaged from arbour hook.

Check ratchets wheels square hole for wear.

Check arbour's square shoulder  for wear.

Ratchet wheel should fit on arbour square perfectly.

Ratchet wheel fitted on arbour upside down.

 

 

 

 

[AndyGSi]

51 minutes ago, Glynconn said:

Hi all, I have dismantled and cleaned all parts except for the main spring. I have no knowledge of the watch fault when I bought it from eBay. My reasoning was it needed a good clean and oil for it to work but maybe that was wrong. If the train of wheels move freely when I turn the mainspring barrel before placing the rachet wheel on top of the barrel, why can’t I manually wind the movement?

Do you mean manually wind with the crown as this movement can't be wound with the crown?

[HectorLooi]

Does the ratchet wheel turn when you turn the ratchet wheel screw?

Is the mainspring installed in the correct direction?

[Neverenoughwatches]

The 6309 is an autowind only.

10 hours ago, Glynconn said:

why can’t I manually wind the movement?

The 6309 is an auto wind only.

[Malocchio]

Did you install the pallet fork?

[Glynconn]

Thanks for the replies. I am winding the movement via a screwdriver and the ratchet wheel to see if the train of wheels moves under the mainspring power. I have tried 3 different main spring barrels and no difference. I suspect the ratchet wheel opening is worn or the arbor square has rounded with age. I have ordered a replacement ratchet wheel to see if that helps.

[Glynconn]

18 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

Does the ratchet wheel turn when you turn the ratchet wheel screw?

Is the mainspring installed in the correct direction?

Yes the ratchet wheel turns when you turn its screw. Is the ratchet wheel not connecting to the arbor correctly?

[Malocchio]

A good photo would probably solve the mystery

[AndyGSi]

16 minutes ago, Glynconn said:

Yes the ratchet wheel turns when you turn its screw. Is the ratchet wheel not connecting to the arbor correctly?

So does the barrel also rotate when you turn the screw?

[Glynconn]

12 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

So does the barrel also rotate when you turn the screw?

Just checked- no, the barrel doesn’t move at the same time. Should it?

[Glynconn]

21 minutes ago, Malocchio said:

A good photo would probably solve the mystery

 

[Nucejoe]

1 hour ago, Glynconn said:

Yes the ratchet wheel turns when you turn its screw. Is the ratchet wheel not connecting to the arbor correctly?

Mainspring is broken or not engaged with arbour hook.

As you said, hole can be worn, but that tilts the barrel or side shake would be excessive.

 

Edited October 22, 2024 by Nucejoe
Typo

[AndyGSi]

1 hour ago, Glynconn said:

Just checked- no, the barrel doesn’t move at the same time. Should it?

No the barrel shouldn't rotate.

Do you feel any tension and here the click as you're turning the screw?

2 hours ago, Glynconn said:

I have tried 3 different main spring barrels and no difference.

Are they all 6309 barrels and have you opened them to check the spring and arbour?

[Malocchio]

You could remove the ratchet wheel and screw and just turn the arbor with tweezers or a peg wood. The train wheels should rotate. If not, open the ms barrel.

[Glynconn]

13 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

No the barrel shouldn't rotate.

Do you feel any tension and here the click as you're turning the screw?

Are they all 6309 barrels and have you opened them to check the spring and arbour?

I feel the tension and hear the click. All 3 have been 6309 barrels for continuity. I have avoided opening up the main barrel unless it’s the last resort. I hear that manually winding the spring back into the barrel is a dark art.

[Glynconn]

7 minutes ago, Malocchio said:

You could remove the ratchet wheel and screw and just turn the arbor with tweezers or a peg wood. The train wheels should rotate. If not, open the ms barrel.

Will try turning the arbor with tweezers thanks. Don’t want to open the barrel if I can avoid so I bought 2 other complete barrels to swap out but same result.

[mpe7383]

What are the threads like on the ratchet wheel screw? Does it actually fully tighten if you hold the ratchet wheel secure?

It looks like you're going to have to take a look inside one of those barrels to see if there is a mainspring in there and inspect the arbour. If you’re careful there's no need to remove the spring for now, just have a look then refit the cap.

[HectorLooi]

Have a look at this video for reference. 

[Glynconn]

1 minute ago, HectorLooi said:

Have a look at this video for reference. 

Thanks. have been using this video as a reference for the last few weeks- very good for a beginner.

[GPrideaux]

Based on the photo, you're doing this without the pallet installed. In that case, the barrel should turn as you turn the ratchet wheel as any wind you put in the mainspring should immediately unwind through the train, and you shouldn't feel an accumulation of tension. If you've done that with three different barrels it seems unlikely that none of them would have a properly engaged and unbroken mainspring so if you are not seeing any movement in the train the problem is likely not in the barrel. You said the train moved freely when you turned the barrel before installing the ratchet wheel. Can you still turn the barrel and see the train move with the ratchet wheel in place?

[mpe7383]

19 minutes ago, GPrideaux said:

Based on the photo, you're doing this without the pallet installed. In that case, the barrel should turn as you turn the ratchet wheel as any wind you put in the mainspring should immediately unwind through the train, and you shouldn't feel an accumulation of tension. If you've done that with three different barrels it seems unlikely that none of them would have a properly engaged and unbroken mainspring so if you are not seeing any movement in the train the problem is likely not in the barrel. You said the train moved freely when you turned the barrel before installing the ratchet wheel. Can you still turn the barrel and see the train move with the ratchet wheel in place?

Agreed, but just to add, where did you get the replacement barrels complete? Second hand or new? You say the train moves freely, how free, if you have an air puffer, does the escape wheel spin freely by just blowing it? Is there any tension in the spring after you've attempted to wind when you release the click?