New mainspring - clean first?

[Khan]

Hi

I have ordered a new mainspring.

Can I fit it in the barrel directly or do I have to clean and lubricate it first? 

[AndyGSi]

You need to lubricate the barrel and then fit using the ring it's supplied in, that way you don't need a winder.

[Nucejoe]

If you don't have spring winder, keep this ring,  springs can be wound in it , when refitting used springs.

[mikepilk]

If it's not automatic, you do not need to lubricate the barrel. Though I do put a few drops of HP11300 on the top of the spring and the base of the barrel - some do, some don't.

I have a bag full of these old washers. If I have to re-fit a reverse wound spring, and don't have the correct winder, I fit the spring in to one of these washers, then I can reverse it when fitting.

[JohnR725]

2 hours ago, Khan said:

Can I fit it in the barrel directly or do I have to clean and lubricate it first?

as you can see it's a lubrication question and we have lots of answers.

the modern white alloy mainspring packaging of the past is always quite interesting. Where they actually put words on the packaging like the image I have below as an example. Notice it's self lubricating? Typically the packages never explains the theories were a dry lubrication like Teflon perhaps or just the metal. Or I've attached a PDF it has a slightly different theory of self lubricating mainsprings.

but it does bring up the amusing problem of the tools below? Specifically designed to apply lubrication to the mainspring which of course has to be out of the ring and you'd use a mainspring winder to put the spring in.

then of course there is the amusement of watch schools teaching watch repair where they actually lubricate their mainsprings. So for instance 8200's designed for mainsprings as it has a really interesting property. what makes it interesting is if you place a tiny drop on top of the spring after it's been inserted into the barrel and you put a tiny bit on the bottom of the barrel along the edge of the spring. Interesting property of 8200 grease is that it has a habit of flowing into the spring itself if you were to come back and look after it's been there a while it will just disappear into the spring.

https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/mainspring-oiling-tweezers-bergeon-swiss

https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/mainspring-oiling-tweezers-horotec-swiss

oh and if you don't like the expensive tweezers I know people put the lubrication on a piece of watch paper and wipes out on the spring.

Omega technical guide number 30 1963 self lubricating mainsprings.PDF

[Khan]

3 hours ago, AndyGSi said:

You need to lubricate the barrel and then fit using the ring it's supplied in, that way you don't need a winder.

I think I didnt expressed myself correctly. My question is related to the spring, if I have to take it out and clean/lubricate it before putting into the barrel? If not, how long lifetime does the lubrication have when sealed?

[AndyGSi]

27 minutes ago, Khan said:

I think I didnt expressed myself correctly. My question is related to the spring, if I have to take it out and clean/lubricate it before putting into the barrel? If not, how long lifetime does the lubrication have when sealed?

It's sold in the washer which is designed for inserting directly into the barrel without having to do anything else with it.

As @mikepilk said, when it's not an Automatic I also put a drop of oil in the barrel and on top when inserted.

In answer to your last question, what's the watch, what's the spring, where have you bought it from?

[Khan]

Its a manual wind omega 1030 and bought the spring from cousins

[AndyGSi]

6 minutes ago, Khan said:

Its a manual wind omega 1030 and bought the spring from cousins

If you got it from Cousins that I think you can pretty much guarantee it will be OK.

[nickelsilver]

The have a dry lubricant applied at the factory, and it really has no limit especially if in the sealed pack.

[Nucejoe]

6 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

The have a dry lubricant applied at the factory, and it really has no limit especially if in the sealed pack.

Good to know.

I need a spring for Mido cal 817 bumper automatic, found one for sale,  though NOS and in sealed pack,  must be fifty years old, would that old not need  be relubed? 

Rgds

[JohnR725]

7 hours ago, Khan said:

Its a manual wind omega 1030 and bought the spring from cousins

 

7 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

The have a dry lubricant applied at the factory, and it really has no limit especially if in the sealed pack.

yes the mysteries of mainspring lubrication. This went over really well at school where we were commenting that there lubricated and why are you teaching us how to lubricate the mainspring? Yes those the questions you should never ask when in school.

But typically the packaging any time indicated that always say it's permanent. That is where the 1963 omega guide is interesting because it actually has a suggestion of five years at least in use. But with everything lubrication related the rules will change no matter what.

So Omega 2020 on their guide on recycling a mainspring barrel has this recommendation for cleaning. Then other than the breaking grease and I believe HP 1300 on the arbor there is no other lubrication to be used. I have a suspicion because of the HP oil that's why in the cleaning procedure below you see the reference to epilam on the barrel in the arbor and that would be to keep the HP oil from spreading all over the place. Which is why you'll also see on any watch that uses HP oils anywhere they always use epilam to keep it from spreading.

7 hours ago, Khan said:

Its a manual wind omega 1030 and bought the spring from cousins

no lubrication is required just shove it in and other than the arbor you'll be fine. 

 

[mikepilk]

Lubrication - ask two watchmakers and you will get three different answers.

As I have found no easy way of cleaning mainsprings in the ultrasonic, I hand clean in  a small tray with some naphtha using a brush. Then wipe with some IPA on a cloth to remove residue. I lubricate () with a small amount of 8200 on tissue paper. The barrel + arbor are cleaned in the ultrasonic, no epilam. For automatics, breaking grease on the wall, and HP1300 on the spring and barrel ends. 

Have I been getting it wrong all along  ? 

[316lad]

Just drifting for a moment - I have just recieved a Barrel Complete from Cousins. Is this all lubed up and ready to go straight in? Or do I need to strip it down and start from scratch. One would imagine a Barrel Complete is just that and no further action is required but i thought I better consult the elders here before plonking it in.

https://www.cousinsuk.com/search?searchTerm=180.1%2C Barrel Complete With Auto Mainspring%2C ETA 2824.2%2C 2834.2 %26 2836.2

 

 

 

Edited October 24, 2024 by 316lad

[JohnR725]

4 hours ago, mikepilk said:

Have I been getting it wrong all along

it's a lubrication question depends upon who you ask. it really would be nice if the watch companies would explain why they're doing and if they change what they're doing would give an update and explain why. although that does bring up the problem of so many the watch companies are not giving us anything at all. Then the other thing because it's lubrication related may be moebius they make the stuff it seem like they can have application notes or comments or suggestions or something.

54 minutes ago, 316lad said:

I have just recieved a Barrel Complete from Cousins. Is this all lubed up and ready to go straight in

I have couple of images the first one is from Omega. Basically they're putting HP oil on the Arbor no need to disassemble.

then I see her mainspring is for 2824 we could just look in the service guide and see what they recommend.. Although the drawing may be a little cryptic one symbol is for lubricating the arbor and the barrel and the other symbol is for lubricating of the arbor in the plates which is why there's two symbols on each side indicating separate lubrication's.

 

 

 

[Nucejoe]

22 hours ago, mikepilk said:

 I do put a few drops of HP11300 on the top of the spring and the base of the barrel