Is this fake or real Cartier santos octagon 25mm??

[insearchofawatch]

Hey All

A family member is interested in this watch. I know a lot about antique and vintage jewelry but I do not know much of anything about watches. Help please.

Edited October 24, 2024 by insearchofawatch
Title change

[AndyGSi]

My thoughts looking at the ones for sale at the link below is that it's fake.

Mains reasons are the lack of details on the case back and the incorrect position of the date window.

https://www.chrono24.co.uk/cartier/ref-187903.htm

[Neverenoughwatches]

31 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

My thoughts looking at the ones for sale at the link below is that it's fake.

Mains reasons are the lack of details on the case back and the incorrect position of the date window.

https://www.chrono24.co.uk/cartier/ref-187903.htm

Chrono 24 did have one with the date window in that position Andy though all the others listed have it positioned in the minute track. The case shape is also different with a flat edge leading up to the crown on that one same as the OP's . It has more information on the case back of it.....serial numbers which was the biggest killer for me with the OP's watch.

6 hours ago, insearchofawatch said:

Hey All

A family member is interested in this watch. I know a lot about antique and vintage jewelry but I do not know much of anything about watches. Help please.

Lack of information on the caseback would put off straight away. Pictures are rarely enough for me, if i was spending a fair wedge on a watch then i want it in my hands to see the accuracy of dial, the quality of the bracelet and to know whats running it.

[AndyGSi]

10 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Chrono 24 did have one with the date window in that position Andy

I missed that one but looking again that's also a front loader.

Edited October 24, 2024 by AndyGSi

[RichardHarris123]

Poor quality photo's are often a give away.

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, AndyGSi said:

I missed that one but looking again that's also a front loader.

something not quite right with the OP's .....again if in doubt....walk away.  If its bought for re-sale which most watches eventually are...then potential buyers  will also be in doubt...then you can possibly have no buyers. 

[watchweasol]

Apart from all the other details mentioned  the. Name Cartier on the back is not straight between the  3. And 9 position  across the back, nd as said lack of detail. I should give it a miss

[316lad]

That is a very, very poor fake of a Cartier de Santos I'm sorry to have to tell you.

There's a number of things wrong with it apart from the obvious - the back is the main giveaway but there are further "tells" all over it.

I specialise in trading Cartier - particularly de Santos.

[Neverenoughwatches]

16 minutes ago, 316lad said:

That is a very, very poor fake of a Cartier de Santos I'm sorry to have to tell you.

There's a number of things wrong with it apart from the obvious - the back is the main giveaway but there are further "tells" all over it.

I specialise in trading Cartier - particularly de Santos.

Prey tell of the tells 316lad please,  many can learn from what you see and know. 

[316lad]

The obvious one is the caseback - the early Santos were front loaders - with through bolts from the bezel, the later were square-backed screwed by fours screws at each corner. They were never round screwback cases so this one falls at the frirst fence, at it were.

Also look at the bracelet lugs, they should be SEL's.

That's the obvious two. No need to look further in than those.

[Neverenoughwatches]

Clearly some sort of scam going on here, compare picture 2 with folded bracelet ends and no through bar holes in the case lugs and then the solid end links in the rest of the photos. 

Can also see more engraving on the caseback of the last photo, totally different back !! someone is frigging around with 2 watches here

What a joke, if you're gonna try to pull the wool over someone's eyes...make sure the bloody sheep is still attached to it

I hope it isn't the OP.... i hate having my time wasted

Edited October 24, 2024 by Neverenoughwatches

[rehajm]

1 hour ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I hope it isn't the OP.... i hate having my time wasted

Ha…using the forums to beta test your scam- that would be low ️

[Neverenoughwatches]

24 minutes ago, rehajm said:

Ha…using the forums to beta test your scam- that would be low ️

... yes....i may get rather annoyed if he doesn't come back with a good answer or at best a reasonable excuse .

[rjenkinsgb]

Some of the photos appear to be taken from this ebay listing:

https://www.ebay.com.my/itm/176066667133

But, with the one of the back substituted with fake.

Definitely a scammer! 

[316lad]

51 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

... yes....i may get rather annoyed if he doesn't come back with a good answer or at best a reasonable excuse .

Yes, there is something going on. Now you mention it - pic 4 has SEL's and pic 2 does not. They are undoubtedly two different watches.

[insearchofawatch]

Appreciate all the information. As mentioned I buy and sell antique jewelry so when my family asked for help I couldn't say for sure. The little research I did prior to finding his forum, made me think it was a fake. Some of the reason pointed out are the ones that made me feel uneasy. Happy you all were able to confirm for sure. I let my cousin know and she was thankful 

[rehajm]

Oh, well that’s great! Stop by with more photos again …

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, rehajm said:

Oh, well that’s great! Stop by with more photos again …

Its like a fun day out at scammers-ville ..... scammers-0     WRT-lots and lots and lots and lots .

Superheros of the unwitting , just off to wash my spandex outfit

[mbwatch]

6 hours ago, rehajm said:

Ha…using the forums to beta test your scam

I've seen that on Watch Repair reddit a few times. Alex finally banned any and all questions about fakes there.

[RichardHarris123]

6 minutes ago, mbwatch said:

I've seen that on Watch Repair reddit a few times. Alex finally banned any and all questions about fakes there.

Why?

[mbwatch]

12 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Why?

Rationale & some discussion linked. I don't think the people testing the reactions to their fakes was the main reason, but there were tons of threads there daily on identifying or fixing fakes. https://www.reddit.com/r/watchrepair/comments/1ftmuc5/new_rule_no_posts_or_discussions_on_counterfeit/

I found it surprising that so many people there conflated branded counterfeits with clone movements. The difference seemed obvious to me.

[RichardHarris123]

Fair enough but we don't have the same constraints so let's carry on helping genuine requests for help with spotting fakes.