Replacing balance wheel - reattaching it to balance cock

[BFernandes]

Hi gents.

I made some progress, I was able to mark the impulse jewel position and now I have attached the spring into the wheel. See original thread here.

Now, I'm having trouble attaching the end of the spring in the balance cock. I positioned it and began screwing it and noticed the end of the spring wasn't quite in place, so when I thought I was done screwing, it just came off.

Upon looking closely, it seems that that end has a strange gape that will never catch the spring.

I took some photos for your gents to see. What am I missing here?

Thanks

[RichardHarris123]

Unless I'm going crazy, which is likely, where is the spring? 

[Neverenoughwatches]

just read the original thread, we never got to the bottom of what happened there... i thought your terminology was off. Can we start again as to what has been done up to now 

19 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Unless I'm going crazy, which is likely, where is the spring? 

its those new non visible ones rich,  they're an absolute bugger to regulate. 

[RichardHarris123]

Yes, I've tried with the invisible springs, I  can't see the wood for the trees, nor the hairspring.

[rjenkinsgb]

It looks to me like the brass insert should move and clamp the spring against the fixed wall, as the screw is tightened.

There is a lot more screw thread showing than gap in the clamp, so I do not understand the problem, from the photos?

Does the brass insert move OK, if the screw is loose? If that's snagging or twisting instead of sliding, it could prevent the spring being gripped properly.

The basic mechanism is similar to some electrical terminals!

[Neverenoughwatches]

i managed to aquire a joblot of them off of ebay at a great price , i raised a complaint at the time as i was unsure if the order was correct when they arrived..... the seller assured me they were in the packet when he posted them...hmmmm

12 minutes ago, rjenkinsgb said:

It looks to me like the brass insert should move and clamp the spring against the fixed wall, as the screw is tightened.

There is a lot more screw thread showing than gap in the clamp, so I do not understand the problem, from the photos?

Does the brass insert move OK, if the screw is loose? If that's snagging or twisting instead of sliding, it could prevent the spring being gripped properly.

The basic mechanism is similar to some electrical terminals!

looking at the original thread the spring is held against the inner wall of the beat adjuster, the stud screw then pushes the clamp to trap the spring, then from underneath the clamp has some adjustment

[JohnR725]

1 hour ago, BFernandes said:

What am I missing here?

currently or in the safe zone for beginners an interesting section the message board where all questions are supposed to be answered even if somebody has asked some questions thousand times before or perhaps somebody thinks it's a stupid question or a whole variety of things so this is a safe place to ask a question but?

But in order to successfully get an answer to a question ideally information has to be given so we can perceive whatever it is you're working on and conceivably we might work out something different or better if we understand the overall picture of what's going on. As opposed to little snippets of where we don't have enough information. Which means you're not going to get necessarily the correct answer but you will get an answer.

On 9/29/2024 at 3:42 PM, HectorLooi said:

Did you replace the whole balance assembly or the balance and hairspring or just the hairspring alone? 

What movement is this?

so here's an example of a problem of asking a question. The number one thing to get an answer is which watch? Model number is nice but the best would be model number and picture of the movement. Often times we may not recognize the model number but we will see the watch and say oh one of those. Plus who knows there might even be technical information available.

Then a better understanding of what you're trying to do is helpful oftentimes newbies are focused on very tiny percentages of the problem and it helps to step back and look at the bigger situation sometimes.

 

On 9/28/2024 at 3:36 AM, BFernandes said:

I have the balance cock ready, I lay the balance wheel and notice the impulse pin is way off. It's facing "backwards" (see below photo).

so from your previous discussion your balance wheel is not quite right? usually if you have the correct replacement part this should not happen. But oftentimes in the group people of purchase generic replacement balance wheels this does happen or perhaps whoever manufactured the watch had variations of where the hairspring and the parts should be and it will work but is not quite right so you will have to fix that problem. So much nicer if it's the actual part it's supposed to be where things are supposed to be.

2 hours ago, BFernandes said:

Now, I'm having trouble attaching the end of the spring in the balance cock. I positioned it and began screwing it and noticed the end of the spring wasn't quite in place, so when I thought I was done screwing, it just came off.

Upon looking closely, it seems that that end has a strange gape that will never catch the spring.

it would be really helpful if we knew which watch this is.

1 hour ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

looking at the original thread the spring is held against the inner wall of the beat adjuster, the stud screw then pushes the clamp to trap the spring, then from underneath the clamp has some adjustment

in other words we have a hairspring with no stud that's held with a clamp.

let's get some more images that helps to make sense. It appears to be that by turning the screw in what looks like a brass block will push the hairspring against part of the balance bridge and hold the hairspring in place. Looks simple enough at least in this image but when we get the side view things look very misleading.

 

2 hours ago, BFernandes said:

Upon looking closely, it seems that that end has a strange gape that will never catch the spring

now we come to the wild speculations? So in both pictures we have a gap because the screw hasn't been screwed in all the way and never going to hold. But the left-hand picture because the angle looks like the flange that I marked on the right-hand side in other words is part of the brass block that protrudes over the build section in the plate to keep the hairspring from popping out a place where it's being fixed in place with the block.

So basically right-hand side looks like maximum out so the screw needs to be adjusted in to bring the block in place. Left hand side looks like you might actually build the catch the upper flange on the mounting plate and maybe that's just misleading and a weird angle for the photography?

then as were in the beginners area just a warning for beginners typically the screws related to holding hairsprings in whether it's a stud screw her this interesting arrangement even though the screen looks really big in the picture typically the really tiny and they do like the strip out which is definitely a problem.

So I guess the question is if the screw is turned into its maximum without stripping it and if we in a picture of the hairspring in the arrangement does the block just not go all the way? Too many unanswered questions?

 

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

John...can i ask....have you upgraded your speak/type softwear or have you improved your typing skills .

no forget that i didnt read the last two paragraphs .

[BFernandes]

Hi all.

It's a Seiko 6309.

Thanks.

[JohnR725]

3 hours ago, BFernandes said:

It's a Seiko 6309

sometimes with older Seiko is finding technical could be a problem but not for this watch as I've attached the PDF technical sheet and snipped out the image on how the hairspring supposed to go in. To live a nice drawing of how it's supposed to work.

https://calibercorner.com/seiko-caliber-6309/

Seiko 6309A.pdf