Dial stuck on AS 1187 movement

[capoman]

Hello. 1950’s Leazer watch with a stuck dial. Appears to have had water ingress, movement looks very good, but the screw holes for the dial  have rust in them and I can’t see to get a screwdriver to work in them. Dial doesn’t seem to want to move at all and is solid against the movement. Not sure if there is glue or rust under dial. My first thought is to put something in the dial screw holes to remove rust. I don’t have evaporustwhich is hard to find in Canada. WD40? Vinegar? I’m afraid of hurting the rest of the movement. Any suggestions? I’ve been working on watches for about 6 months now on weekends, first time I’ve run into a challenge like this. Thanks!

[RichardHarris123]

Photos would help. 

[capoman]

Photos. Hard to see the rusty dial screw holes.

[Neverenoughwatches]

personally i would go for a drop of WD on top of the screw heads and wait for it to soak through to the threads.... you might be able to get some to run down the locking side of dial feet, give the fluid time to soak in, a few days. dont try an ultrasonic , good chance it will strip the face completely and leave worse than you already have.

[capoman]

Thanks, I’ll give that a shot!

[capoman]

Done. It doesn’t even feel like there is any thing left of whatever screws were in there. Hopefully if that’s the case the WD40 will at least let the feet on the dial go. I’ve been mainly fixing and restoring pocket watches up to now and building wrist watches from new parts so this is my first foray into a vintage wristwatch movement.  Looks like I didn’t pick an easy one, LOL.

[AndyGSi]

It looks to me like the screws are long gone as I'd expect to see the slot level with the edge.

As @Neverenoughwatches said I'd put a drop of WD40 in the holes and leave it to soak for a bit.

Do you intend on reusing the dial?

[capoman]

15 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

It looks to me like the screws are long gone as I'd expect to see the slot level with the edge.

As @Neverenoughwatches said I'd put a drop of WD40 in the holes and leave it to soak for a bit.

Do you intend on reusing the dial?

My main intent for this was to restore as if it was a more valuable watch than it is. I would like to try to keep the dial and maybe just save the watch as a trophy of my first vintage wristwatch rebuild. I might consider replacing it if the movement works well. The original case and strap are in very good condition, just dirty. My main goal here is really to practice rebuilding a swiss movement.There was also a beautiful set of gold hands with it, similar to the old Tudor ones.

Edited October 26, 2024 by capoman
Additional info.

[AndyGSi]

3 minutes ago, capoman said:

My main intent for this was to restore as if it was a more valuable watch than it is. I would like to try to keep the dial and maybe just save the watch as a trophy of my first vintage wristwatch rebuild. I might consider replacing it if the movement works well. The original case and strap are in very good condition, just dirty. My main goal here is really to practice rebuilding a swiss movement.

Not sure what you mean by 'restore as if it was a more valuable watch than it is' but what movement is it?

[capoman]

4 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

Not sure what you mean by 'restore as if it was a more valuable watch than it is' but what movement is it?

I just mean to do the best job I can with it including cleaning the dial carefully. I didn’t pay much for this, but I still intend to try to restore using as many original parts as possible. It’s an AS 1187.

[Neverenoughwatches]

I get that fella , you want make the best job of your first watch repair. What you do now will be 10 times as less  effective compared to what you can do in a year if you practice regularly and develop the skill and knowledge that follows. Re the dial, you won't make much if any improvement as a beginner but surprisingly enough you could make it a whole lot worse if you try to improve it . So if you want your trophy first watch fix....then mostly leave it be . I think we need more info on the condition of those dial feet screws, as it is we can see the tops of the dial feet and you've shown us some holes where the screws go, but without using my superpowers of night or xray vision....which can only work if I'm actually with you in person looking at your watch with you, then some light in there might give us a clue as to whats going on. 

Maybe John will come along with his crystal ball, give it a polish and fire it up John.  Maybe...just maybe...I'm in a funny old mood today. I guess I'll just apologise now in case my behaviour hits an all time low today. Seriously we need to see a screw.

head...oh my 

Shoot me now.

[capoman]

10 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I get that fella , you want make the best job of your first watch repair. What you do now will be 10 times as less  effective compared to what you can do in a year if you practice regularly and develop the skill and knowledge that follows. Re the dial, you won't make much if any improvement as a beginner but surprisingly enough you could make it a whole lot worse if you try to improve it . So if you want your trophy first watch fix....then mostly leave it be . I think we need more info on the condition of those dial feet screws, as it is we can see the tops of the dial feet and you've shown us some holes where the screws go, but without using my superpowers of night or xray vision....which can only work if I'm actually with you in person looking at your watch with you, then some light in there might give us a clue as to whats going on. 

Maybe John will come along with his crystal ball, give it a polish and fire it up John.  Maybe...just maybe...I'm in a funny old mood today. I guess I'll just apologise now in case my behaviour hits an all time low today. Seriously we need to see a screw.

head...oh my 

Shoot me now.

Thanks for your words. There were two dial feet, not 3 I expected and they are fine. I think there was only one screw with anything left, and nothing there to grip on. The WD-40 did the trick though to loosen things up enough to get the dial off, and it seems to be in decent shape on the underside. The movement came apart without issue after that and seems in good shape. I won’t be getting back to it until next weekend, took lots of pics along the way. I guess the question going forward is what to do to remount the dial when complete? Two dial feet are fine, but not sure the holes are very useful. I guess I’ll see after I give the plate a good cleaning. I have a screw collection I might find some in, but I don’t have any taps that small. I know it’s not kosher, but maybe a couple drops of hot glue would be sufficient, LOL.

[Neverenoughwatches]

27 minutes ago, capoman said:

Thanks for your words. There were two dial feet, not 3 I expected and they are fine. I think there was only one screw with anything left, and nothing there to grip on. The WD-40 did the trick though to loosen things up enough to get the dial off, and it seems to be in decent shape on the underside. The movement came apart without issue after that and seems in good shape. I won’t be getting back to it until next weekend, took lots of pics along the way. I guess the question going forward is what to do to remount the dial when complete? Two dial feet are fine, but not sure the holes are very useful. I guess I’ll see after I give the plate a good cleaning. I have a screw collection I might find some in, but I don’t have any taps that small. I know it’s not kosher, but maybe a couple drops of hot glue would be sufficient, LOL.

If the threads are shot you can re-drill them for a bigger screw size, and the holes to accommodate a larger head or reduce the head diameter if need be. The screw should cut its own thread in the brass plate.

[RichardHarris123]

If replacing the dial feet screws isn't an option, you can buy dial dots. @Neverenoughwatchesssuggestion is the best choice though. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

18 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

If replacing the dial feet screws isn't an option, you can buy dial dots. @Neverenoughwatchesssuggestion is the best choice though. 

Why thank you kind Sir, maybe its the best choice until someone comes up with a better one

[nevenbekriev]

See, there is simple way to take the dial off without damaging it's legs. Disassemble the rear side of movement in order to get to the holes where dial legs go in. Then You must fix the movement as to be able to press the legs trough the holes and in the same time the dial to be free to go down. Press the legs little by little first one then the other, again the first one and so on until the dial is free. In the end You will be able to etch the screws in alum or sulfuric acid

[capoman]

As per my previous post, the dial is off now. The WD-40 did the trick. Just a matter of figuring out how to put it back in if the holes are pooched. Weird that the rest of the movement is just fine, and didn’t have the same corrosion issues as the dial screws.

[nevenbekriev]

26 minutes ago, capoman said:

As per my previous post, the dial is off now. The WD-40 did the trick. Just a matter of figuring out how to put it back in if the holes are pooched. Weird that the rest of the movement is just fine, and didn’t have the same corrosion issues as the dial screws.

Sorry, I missed it. But, You already will know what to do in similar situations, where the screws are damaged and will not want to untighten.

Now, if the threads are damaged, just use slightly bigger screw. Put some oil and screw it forward-reverse carefully until new thread is formed to the end.