Jump to content

Piecing together a 6105-8000 & chapter ring question

tIB
 Share

Recommended Posts

tIB WRT Addict

tIB

Posted
Posted (edited)

I decided to take on a challenge of putting together an all original Seiko 6105-8000 from parts... so far I have an original dial, hands and movement housed in a (very good!) homage case: 

signal-2024-10-26-19-43-48-971.thumb.jpg.92f16ea6c4197c16f639f41198818b0c.jpg

The dial is far from perfect - it's had some damage and a touch up having that 'automatic' text redone. It has personality though! 

IMG_20241018_175902.thumb.jpg.293d982ab1c650cd106c8d5974b0d508.jpg

Finally pulled the trigger on an original '69 case today which should land in the next week or so... that's the case, caseback, bezel ring (though not insert) and really rough looking chapter ring sorted. There's a crystal fitted too though I'm pretty sure it's not correct and plan to use the one I cleaned up from my 8110...

I have questions about that chapter ring: is it the same on both 6105 diver models and/or does anyone know the dimensions of it? Used in any other models? Interested to know if anyone has repainted and has any tips there? I guess I should possibly ask in another thread but I'll see if I get any answers here first. 

So yeah, will update... There's a few bits I'll need to keep an eye out for, most notably the crown and bezel insert... I've a repro fat 'lock' style repro one coming I can use in the meantime and I've plenty of non original insert options... Looking forward to getting that case!

Edited by tIB
Fixed model number, sorry!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
AndyGSi Distinguished Member

AndyGSi

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, tIB said:

I have questions about that chapter ring: is it the same on both 6105 diver models and/or does anyone know the dimensions of it? Used in any other models? Interested to know if anyone has repainted and has any tips there? I guess I should possibly ask in another thread but I'll see if I get any answers here first. 

So the chapter ring on the 6105-8000 is a 83070954 which was also used on the 8009

Edit

The 8000 (320W10GN) & 8100 (310T10AN) crystals aren't the same size.

Edited by AndyGSi
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
tIB WRT Addict

tIB

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
57 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

So the chapter ring on the 6105-8000 is a 83070954 which was also used on the 8009

Edit

The 8000 (320W10GN) & 8100 (310T10AN) crystals aren't the same size.

Thanks for the info on chapter ring - I think I'm right in saying both slim and fat diver/Willard's share the same 320W10GN00 crystal and gasket set up, with a different method of attaching the rotating bezel?

 (Incidentally there's a 8100 case and dial on eBay right now)

Edited by tIB
Link to comment
Share on other sites
AndyGSi Distinguished Member

AndyGSi

Posted
Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, tIB said:

Thanks for the info on chapter ring - I think I'm right in saying both slim and fat diver/Willard's share the same 320W10GN00 crystal and gasket set up, with a different method of attaching the rotating bezel?

 (Incidentally there's a 8100 case and dial on eBay right now)

Everywhere I've looked is showing the 8100 as 310T10AN or 310T16 or 310T48

image.png.ddb3d9fde465680b3f43012814a1a730.png

image.thumb.png.e1c2c84476fff2d314a83f632ccf3647.png

Edited by AndyGSi
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
tIB WRT Addict

tIB

Posted
  • Author
Posted
16 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

Everywhere I've looked is showing the 8100 as 310T10AN or 310T16 or 310T48

image.png.ddb3d9fde465680b3f43012814a1a730.png

image.thumb.png.e1c2c84476fff2d314a83f632ccf3647.png

Apologies, I think I've caused some confusion from my original post by listing the wrong case number for that crystal I plan to use: it's from an 8110 - looking back I must have misstyped it! Will fix.

 

But yes - the 8000 and 8110 share crystal specs I believe?! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
AndyGSi Distinguished Member

AndyGSi

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, tIB said:

Apologies, I think I've caused some confusion from my original post by listing the wrong case number for that crystal I plan to use: it's from an 8110 - looking back I must have misstyped it! Will fix.

 

But yes - the 8000 and 8110 share crystal specs I believe?! 

Yes the 8110 is also the 320W10

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
tIB WRT Addict

tIB

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

I'd forgotten the dial/chapter ring seats the crystal gasket as well... assuming it's correct I think I'll have to strip and repaint the one (I hope is) in the case. 

Leaving these here to help me later on... (Think it's probably from the later 6106 sports divers but it's the same approach I think)

 

Seiko6105CrystalRetention.png.36eeac741254cfe41f297c35bcc56d54.pngSeiko6105CasingGuide.thumb.png.75d27f4dc03ce2e2531b428ed4d2a089.png

Edited by tIB
Link to comment
Share on other sites
tIB WRT Addict

tIB

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, AndyGSi said:

Looks the same as this.

image.png.6c0dd63c740e1539246c18aca0766d59.png

It does, almost, though that's actually added to my confusion around the dial ring setup - that's as I remember it from my 8110, though the diagram I posted above (and more importantly parts I've seen for sale) has the dial ring going deeper into the case with the glass gasket seated on top of it (as opposed to on top of the rear edge of the dial ring and the case itself as shown in the diagram you posted). If you compare the dial ring in that picture and the one I posted (from a different model I think) you'll see what I'm rambling on about. 

 

The dial ring I've seen are listed for both models but maybe there's a difference between the 8000 and 8110? The parts catalogue I looked at has them as the same part though afaik (unless I'm reading it wrong). I've actually seen three different parts numbers listed for sale as the dial ring for both models so I'm not sure what's going on there. 

 

Not to worry - I'll see where I'm at when the case lands... Assuming the correct ring is in there I think the simplest thing would be to strip and repaint. 

Edited by tIB
Link to comment
Share on other sites
tIB WRT Addict

tIB

Posted
  • Author
Posted

So assuming all is correct I think is correct with the case, I think all I'm short of is a bezel insert (I have the bezel but the ring has been replaced with a different models somewhere along the line) and crown. 

I think finding an original bezel insert in reasonable condition might be a very long game, but crown wise does anyone have any tips on distinguishing an original from a reproduction? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
AndyGSi Distinguished Member

AndyGSi

Posted
Posted
33 minutes ago, tIB said:

So assuming all is correct I think is correct with the case, I think all I'm short of is a bezel insert (I have the bezel but the ring has been replaced with a different models somewhere along the line) and crown. 

I think finding an original bezel insert in reasonable condition might be a very long game, but crown wise does anyone have any tips on distinguishing an original from a reproduction? 

Can you confirm what you mean by bezel insert?

The only true way I've found with a crown is sealed in original packet.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
tIB WRT Addict

tIB

Posted
  • Author
Posted
40 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

Can you confirm what you mean by bezel insert?

The only true way I've found with a crown is sealed in original packet.

Bezel wise it looks to have the correct bezel itself (metal ring) but with an incorrect 'insert' fitted some time after - while I know from the factory they come as one (ie Seiko sold the bezel and insert together as one item) it looks like in this case someone has pulled out the insert and fitted something else. I'll add some pictures once it's here...

I feared that might be the case on the crown - I've been looking at pictures and one I figured was reproduction was deemed legit by some on another forum... I need to work out whether there actually was a period of time when these came with the 'lock' crown from the later model, and whether that fits with the case itself timewise, since I know what to look for better there.

While I'd much rather have the Seiko labelled crown, I could settle with the latter one if correct and there's less chance of me spending original cash on a repro. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
AndyGSi Distinguished Member

AndyGSi

Posted
Posted (edited)

This is what an original crown should look like.

image.png.b60007a5297e27c51fa18e9665fc8ebe.png

Compared to an aftermarket that has a lot more slope to the letters and no proper notches between the bottoms of the letters.

image.png.d3836d824685087e76e9116a5a5444f2.png

Edit

If think with the bezel insert you'll probably have to go for an aftermarket or look for a complete NOS bezel.

 

 

Edited by AndyGSi
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
tIB WRT Addict

tIB

Posted
  • Author
Posted
30 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

This is what an original crown should look like.

image.png.b60007a5297e27c51fa18e9665fc8ebe.png

Compared to an aftermarket that has a lot more slope to the letters and no proper notches between the bottoms of the letters.

image.png.d3836d824685087e76e9116a5a5444f2.png

Edit

If think with the bezel insert you'll probably have to go for an aftermarket or look for a complete NOS bezel.

 

 

That's really good info on the crown thanks - just what I needed!

On the 'lock' thing I'd misread some info about there being an 8000 with one fitted in an old JDM brochure - it's actually the other way around in that there's an 8119 with the older style signed crown. 

Bezel wise I've a short term plan (really good repro) and in the longer term I'll see what, if anything, I can find - I think you are right in that it would have to be complete if NOS, and I suspect that would be very spendy... 

Incidentally I found a really good timeline  of the 6105s and their intricacies of the odd variations within - I'll upload if anyone is interested. Assume because it was freely shared elsewhere I'd be ok doing that. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
tIB WRT Addict

tIB

Posted
  • Author
Posted
2 hours ago, AndyGSi said:

I( think that dial ring is too far gone for a repaint.

 

I think you're probably right - I'll be on the lookout...

 

Dial ring aside I'm happy - spent the last couple of hours clearing gunk. Case bezel and back all good - no surprises. 

I'll spend a bit of time on that dial ring tomorrow and make the same call you (and I already) made on first sight! It's out of the case which is good.

IMG_20241101_183457.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites
tIB WRT Addict

tIB

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

There are a few currently on eBay but I'd be interested in a close up photo once it's
cleaned to see the intricacies as I wonder if one could be machined or even cast.

I've wondered about machining - need to show the old man and see what he thinks... he's handy on a lathe. 

 

Edit: I am going to have a proper look at the one in there tomorrow - might work. Reasons why I definitely shouldn't?

Edited by tIB
Link to comment
Share on other sites
AndyGSi Distinguished Member

AndyGSi

Posted
Posted
38 minutes ago, tIB said:

I've wondered about machining - need to show the old man and see what he thinks... he's handy on a lathe. 

 

Edit: I am going to have a proper look at the one in there tomorrow - might work. Reasons why I definitely shouldn't?

No harm in having a look but there just appears to be too much that's corroded away.

I think it's something that would be better milled than spun on a lathe.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
tIB WRT Addict

tIB

Posted
  • Author
Posted
16 hours ago, AndyGSi said:

No harm in having a look but there just appears to be too much that's corroded away.

I think it's something that would be better milled than spun on a lathe.

I'm sure you're right about milling - I didn't inherit my old man's technical savvy!

While I'm pretty sure I'll end up buying a dial ring at some point I'm currently trying to spruce this one up. It's not great but it might do me for a little while... we'll see what it's like when it's dried. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
 Share
Go to topic listing


  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • ChrisInOz
      No images showing

      By ChrisInOz · Posted

      The post below contains the link. If you don't already have a discord account it will take you to the registration screen.  Registration is free.   https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/31653-mark/?do=findComment&comment=279066
    • luiazazrambo
      WWW Eterna sucked me in.

      By luiazazrambo · Posted

      HWGIKE#57 Valex FEF 190 15 jewels Swiss lever full service and repair This one was waiting for a balance staff replacement in my cabinet parts and case cleaned up with a new balance staff and a 4th wheel as the original 4th wheel had a broken pivot for the off center second hand. I never attempted a balance staff replacement before however I received a Bergeon Molfres (i was hunting it for about 2 years) and with the help of it I managed to remove the old staff and riveted the new one in. It also received a new MS, crystal and the hole for the MS arbor was also tightened. With the new MS now it has an acceptable performance meaning that the amplitude goes up to 280 fully wound, has an acceptable beat error and I have the two nice lines but only dial up, dial down is not as nice and I could not figure out as why. I have the two lines but the amplitude is dropping to around 230 and the lines are a bit hairy. Both dial up and dial down the lines just go up and down without seemingly any pattern. I cleaned the movement two times, and then a 3rd time pegged out the main plate and train bridge holes but made no change. Both the HS collet and the roller table was too lose on the new staff... I did not count how many times I took the balance cock off to sort out the HS collet, the roller table and the beat error, somebody before me also shortened the HS by pushing it out a bit and it seems every time somebody is messing with the end of the HS the protruding bit is most of the time twisted bent etc. This one was probably one of the most challenging repair and service. I might take the new MS out and clean it lubricate it as I just pushed the new one in to the barrel from the retaining ring. Plus started to re-read the theory of the escapement and how to analyse the graph on the timing machine: Greiner Chronografic Record manual. I am also thinking to put the watch on a 24 hour long run with the eTimer SW it once helped me to figure out what was wrong with a watch. There is an interesting part of the Greiner record manual talking about the pallets and the end shake of the balance and pallet staff. Maybe this is my issue? Who could that possibly identify? After a few years now I am still without a clue how could watchmakers make parts I can only see with my microscope or how could/can they carry out complicated services impossible to do.. real magic..... .... ..... before I sent this post while the pics were uploading I had an idea, i was browsing the possible outcomes on the timing machine I had one for magnetism..... so I demagnetized the movement and it is not hairy now.... two really nice lines 0.2 ms beat error still a bit wavy, but a lot lot better..... argh....  
    • Nucejoe
      Hello from Cypress, CA

      By Nucejoe · Posted

      Hi there, welcome here.  
    • JohnR725
      No images showing

      By JohnR725 · Posted

      yes the advertising revenue should generate money. The question is how much money? Then as far as the cost of the website goes that's relatively easy to determine? all you would have to do to grasp costs and profitability would be to go to the link below and you can actually get a website for free try it out for free I believe you get no advertising initially. They also talk about that they'll help you out they have marketing tools and some sort of paid subscription or something. So I guess were shopping for a whatever just ask them what would a maybe could use this one as an example in other words it's going to look basically identical to this is going to have advertising a paid subscriptions what's it going to cost? After all they want to sell or give us a message board like this they should bill answer the questions as they're the people who did the software for this. Yes they really said you can have a free discussion group at least to start. https://invisioncommunity.com/ I was curious about the monthly supporter thing where exactly do we find that on this message board? A quick search I'm not finding it so obviously I'm not looking in the right place?
    • Curare
      No images showing

      By Curare · Posted

      Help me out here, but with all the advertising on this site (which I don't mind) wouldn't it pay for itself or even make money for the owner ???
×
×
  • Create New...