Acceptable gap between crown and case?

[tIB]

So I've fitted an original crown onto the 6105-8000 project - there's quite a big gap between the crown and the case, maybe just under a mm. Pic:

While I understand there should be a bit of space that looks excessive? I've tried without the stem and that's simply as far as it pushes on.

 

The seal in there won't have been changed so perhaps it's just some crud in the bottom and getting it open for a clean out is the way forward? I've never done the crown on these but understand it's a case of forcing out the seated metal washer/crown back by stuffing full of little o-rings. 

 

Or maybe that's how it should be (seal aside)?

[AndyGSi]

That crown is bottoming out on the case so I expect it's the wrong one.

You can stuff the old crown with o-rings or sometimes you can just pry the washer out with small hooks.

[Malocchio]

Is the stem old and correct length? If the crown is NOS or was taken off a crown tube while the gasket was still soft it might have hardened so that it won't fit the crown tube properly. Stuffing the crown with smaller o-rings is a working method. 

[tIB]

10 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

That crown is bottoming out on the case so I expect it's the wrong one.

You can stuff the old crown with o-rings or sometimes you can just pry the washer out with small hooks.

I don't think that's the case - I think the case shaping makes it look that way in the photo.

There's space for the crown to push in further but think it's the tube catching on (something in) the base of the crown.

12 minutes ago, Malocchio said:

Is the stem old and correct length? If the crown is NOS or was taken off a crown tube while the gasket was still soft it might have hardened so that it won't fit the crown tube properly. Stuffing the crown with smaller o-rings is a working method. 

That's my wonder - either a hardened gasket or crud in the crown isn't helping it fit on. 

Thanks for the info both - you've confirmed my suspicion that the gap is too big. 

[AndyGSi]

You could just try it in the ultrasonic and see if you can clear anything out that way.

What diameter is the crown?

[HectorLooi]

You could remove the movement and just insert the crown and see if it can go all the way in.

[AndyGSi]

4 minutes ago, HectorLooi said:

You could remove the movement and just insert the crown and see if it can go all the way in.

49 minutes ago, tIB said:

I've tried without the stem and that's simply as far as it pushes on.

He's already tried that.

[HectorLooi]

Repair Tool for Removing The Waterproof Ring on The Crown of The Watch, Replaceable Hook, Watch Maintenance Tool for Watchmakers
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mKASyRe

You might try one of these. But if the rubber is rock hard, you might need to dissolve it by soaking it in acetone and scooping out the goop with an oiler.

How much of the pendant tube is sticking out?

[Malocchio]

8 minutes ago, HectorLooi said:

Repair Tool for Removing The Waterproof Ring on The Crown of The Watch, Replaceable Hook, Watch Maintenance Tool for Watchmakers
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mKASyRe

I bought this and it works well with soft gaskets. Last time I removed a gasket from a sealed crown was a King Seiko 4502-7001. I tried a method I learned from car people. They soften rubber parts by soaking them in a mixture of wintergreen oil and IPA. It sure softens rock hard gaskets but nowhere near enough that you could pull them out in one piece. Plus the old gasket tends to crack when it dries so you cannot really reuse it. The softened gasket is easier to break in pieces and pull out so it helps a bit. Maybe the softening method is better suited for bigger parts like those in cars.

[AndyGSi]

19 minutes ago, HectorLooi said:

Repair Tool for Removing The Waterproof Ring on The Crown of The Watch, Replaceable Hook, Watch Maintenance Tool for Watchmakers
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mKASyRe

You might try one of these. But if the rubber is rock hard, you might need to dissolve it by soaking it in acetone and scooping out the goop with an oiler.

How much of the pendant tube is sticking out?

This is a sealed crown with a washer so there's no just scooping out the old o-ring.

[tIB]

51 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

You could just try it in the ultrasonic and see if you can clear anything out that way.

What diameter is the crown?

That's an idea thanks; I don't have one but my FiL does I think... 

Diameter wise I've got 6.4mm on these cheap calipers.

[AndyGSi]

1 minute ago, tIB said:

That's an idea thanks; I don't have one but my FiL does I think... 

Diameter wise I've got 6.4mm on these cheap calipers.

It must just be the photo then where it looks like it's bottoming out.

[tIB]

23 minutes ago, HectorLooi said:

Repair Tool for Removing The Waterproof Ring on The Crown of The Watch, Replaceable Hook, Watch Maintenance Tool for Watchmakers
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mKASyRe

You might try one of these. But if the rubber is rock hard, you might need to dissolve it by soaking it in acetone and scooping out the goop with an oiler.

How much of the pendant tube is sticking out?

That's worth a look, thanks. Without measuring (it's cased up again) pendant tube looks pretty normal, and more importantly fits a repro crown flush to the case and with a seemingly good seal. I don't think tube is the issue. 

1 minute ago, AndyGSi said:

It must just be the photo then where it looks like it's bottoming out.

Yeah it's the case design/shape makes it look that way - I thought the same on first look but it's the same diameter as the repro one that fits correctly. 

7 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

This is a sealed crown with a washer so there's no just scooping out the old o-ring.

Yes - I think people have done this but after 40 odd years someone worked out the best way to regasket this non serviceable part was to fill it full of gaskets and work it out via internal pressure. Crazy!

[Malocchio]

14 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

This is a sealed crown with a washer so there's no just scooping out the old o-ring.

Even if the o-ring was brand new the gap in these 6105 diver crowns is too narrow to fit the thick ring in or out. 

[HectorLooi]

28 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

This is a sealed crown with a washer so there's no just scooping out the old o-ring.

I mean the oring becomes a goopy mess, like tar. And the only way to remove is to dip the oiler in it and wiping it off on a piece of tissue.

The stuffing orings in trick doesn't always work. There are 2 kinds of washers, some are just friction fitted and some are rubbed-in, like jewels. The rubbed-in ones will never pop out.

My mentor simply cuts the whole washer off and makes a new one. I haven't reached that level of proficiency yet.

[tIB]

17 minutes ago, HectorLooi said:

I mean the oring becomes a goopy mess, like tar. And the only way to remove is to dip the oiler in it and wiping it off on a piece of tissue.

The stuffing orings in trick doesn't always work. There are 2 kinds of washers, some are just friction fitted and some are rubbed-in, like jewels. The rubbed-in ones will never pop out.

My mentor simply cuts the whole washer off and makes a new one. I haven't reached that level of proficiency yet.

That's good (and bad!) to know - I wonder if that is in general or in relation to Seiko diver crowns?

 

If so is it one of those where it relates to age/date of production, or perhaps like lots of Seiko things it's all a bit variable?

 

Also, I believe getting a new one back in is an issue if you get out via gloop method. 

Edited November 8, 2024 by tIB

[tIB]

So I've got this to a more acceptable level - I've a new stem coming so will come back to it when I service the gasket in the crown, but for now a few cycles through the ultrasonic and a bit of poking around with an oiler seems to have improved things. 

[tIB]

And better still... I'll call that done (gasket aside).