Bushing a plate bearing for barrel arbors

[RichardHarris123]

8 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

as I'm back in school till next summer...along with

Did I miss something? 

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Did I miss something? 

Back in school......Just my first step in getting to Uni mate. I have no school records so I'm having to start from scratch, I'd  like some qualifications under my belt besides my building apprenticeship before next years intake. Access to learning can be hit and miss for us 'old uns'  and I didn't want to rely on a Uni's clearing process to scrape in.  So I'm studing English , Maths and IT.....inbetween bits of work.....absolutely loving the refresher learning.

[mikepilk]

8 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

 So I'm studing English 

That's a FAIL Rich .  Good luck with the courses.

I was never that great at Maths, which is ironic, as I spent my working life using it in aero engineering. 

Now I've retired I'm learning stuff I always wanted to better understand, like Quantum mechanics (where the maths isn't as hard as you would imagine).

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, mikepilk said:

That's a FAIL Rich .  Good luck with the courses.

I was never that great at Maths, which is ironic, as I spent my working life using it in aero engineering. 

Now I've retired I'm learning stuff I always wanted to better understand, like Quantum mechanics (where the maths isn't as hard as you would imagine).

You needed to know the context Mike, lots of middle aged women on my course.......I'm the only stud in the classroom

[nickelsilver]

If you can make a stepped hole in the bridge you can avoid the need for solder. Here's a fix I did on a JLC 838, this has a suspended barrel, so 100% of wear is on the bridge and there's next to no material to work with. The worn portion protrudes down toward the barrel a bit and up toward the ratchet wheel. I did the bridge work in a faceplate, the stepped bushing was all lathe work.

 

In the last pic the the barrel arbor looks low but it pulls up when screwed to the ratchet wheel.

 

 

Edited November 19, 2024 by nickelsilver

[Neverenoughwatches]

2 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

If you can make a stepped hole I'm the bridge you can avoid the need for solder. Here's a fix I did on a JLC 838, this has a suspended barrel, so 100% of wear is on the bridge and there's next to no material to work with. The worn portion protrudes down toward the barrel a bit and up toward the ratchet wheel. I did the bridge work in a faceplate, the stepped bushing was all lathe work.

 

In the last pic the the barrel arbor looks low but it pulls up when screwed to the ratchet wheel.

 

 

 Too complicated ( complex : synonym ) for me ( pronoun ) to attempt (verb) ) Nicklesilver ( proper noun )

Besides ( conjunction ) I  ( personal first person pronoun ) dont have ( auxiliary verb ) the ( definitive article ) tools ( collective noun ). 

10 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

 Too complicated ( complex : synonym ) for me ( pronoun ) to attempt (verb) ) Nicklesilver ( proper noun )

Besides ( conjunction ) I  ( personal first person pronoun ) dont have ( auxiliary verb ) the ( definitive article ) tools ( collective noun ). 

But ( conjuction ) Wow ! ( interjection ) thats fantastic ( adjective ) work ( noun ) matey ( pronoun ). 

Edited November 19, 2024 by Neverenoughwatches

[tomh207]

Anyone close to Hull? If so can you nip over and reset Rich, looks like his algorithm has jumped into verbose debug mode

 

 

Tom

[nickelsilver]

35 minutes ago, tomh207 said:

Anyone close to Hull? If so can you nip over and reset Rich, looks like his algorithm has jumped into verbose debug mode

 

 

Tom

Hull is black country no? One of the most verbose mfrs I know is from there. Poor guy ended up celiac and has to drink terrible beer now.

[Neverenoughwatches]

30 minutes ago, tomh207 said:

Anyone close to Hull? If so can you nip over and reset Rich, looks like his algorithm has jumped into verbose debug mode

 

 

Tom

Just practicing ( correct spelling present participle verb ) for my English lesson tomorrow ( adverb, when form )   ( emoji of happy emotion ) 

Anyone would think I talk too much

[Klassiker]

11 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

Hull is black country no? One of the most verbose mfrs I know is from there. Poor guy ended up celiac and has to drink terrible beer now.

Noooooo..! The Black Country is west of Birmingham. Where the Yamyams come from. 

 

Hull is on the East Coast. Where the sexy sounding people come from. 

 

11 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

up celiac

With celiac, or is that a swiss village as well as a disease?

[mikepilk]

13 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

 Too complicated ( complex : synonym ) for me ( pronoun ) to attempt (verb) ) Nicklesilver ( proper noun )

Besides ( conjunction ) I  ( personal first person pronoun ) dont have ( auxiliary verb ) the ( definitive article ) tools ( collective noun ). 

But ( conjuction ) Wow ! ( interjection ) thats fantastic ( adjective ) work ( noun ) matey ( pronoun ). 

I can never remember all that stuff - pronouns, definitive article, adjective etc. The left side of my brain is lacking, or I must have been asleep when I was taught. I have to look them up each time. That's probably why, despite having to take French for 5 years at school, I was hopeless.  Concepts in maths, physics, engineering etc, I have no problems remembering.   I love reading and envy your ability.

[Neverenoughwatches]

7 hours ago, mikepilk said:

I can never remember all that stuff - pronouns, definitive article, adjective etc. The left side of my brain is lacking, or I must have been asleep when I was taught. I have to look them up each time. That's probably why, despite having to take French for 5 years at school, I was hopeless.  Concepts in maths, physics, engineering etc, I have no problems remembering.   I love reading and envy your ability.

At school I was crap at English. Running a business, i think you just automatically learn how to communicate with people. Then with all the paperwork you pick up other bits and pieces, I knew before starting studying some of the word types and clauses in my post, the rest i have been taught this month. I think writing structure is a fascinating subject, but Maths and the Sciences are stlll my favourite, i see more logic in them whereas English has tons of grey areas and has never become fully refined. 

8 hours ago, Klassiker said:

Noooooo..! The Black Country is west of Birmingham. Where the Yamyams come from. 

 

Hull is on the East Coast. Where the sexy sounding people come from. 

 

With celiac, or is that a swiss village as well as a disease?

Thaats cos wi sexi peeps art wi

Even Jack Black and Kyle Gass said we're sexy people

[RichardHarris123]

Maths and science are rule based, English isn't.  I before e except for numerous examples etc. Our language is a bastardisation of many languages. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

12 hours ago, Klassiker said:

Noooooo..! The Black Country is west of Birmingham. Where the Yamyams come from. 

 

Hull is on the East Coast. Where the sexy sounding people come from. 

 

With celiac, or is that a swiss village as well as a disease?

Thanks Stephen,  saved me a lot of effort to explain where i come from , why we're all crazy but sexy as hell

[Neverenoughwatches]

Ok so its not ideal and a its very " builder's rig " set up......milk crates..actually....newkie brown crates....solid lightweights...batterns and scaffold poles omitted for this small simple rig .  And i just need to change my slippers for Rigger's boots. But its got me sat in front of a lathe so how about a round of applause for motivation and initiative fellas .

Fully set up with a cuppa and a proper builder's size slice of homemade tea loaf, Archie wasn't available today so Donald has offered to chip in with his input .

[Neverenoughwatches]

Bush made ?  Yes but no. This is double the size of the drawing that Case did for me.....x2 but to fairly accurate scale.  Kind of wanted to ease myself into this small stuff plus i didn't have any solid brass rod only pre drilled brass  with 1mm hole...so i scaled it from that dimension. But very straight forward to make. Difficulties....sharpening the graver good enough without leaving teeth marks...at x25 and x40 just shows how rough your grinding wheel and laps are. And 2 not the right kind of measuing tools for the job....a cheap digi vernier, pin gauges and a bench micrometer did not cut it. 

[nickelsilver]

That's some clean turning work!

[caseback]

Looks great!  Working under a microscope like you do now, you'll have no trouble making the actual part after this tryout.

Your lathe will be smiling as well and won't like to be put back in it's drawer..

Edited November 21, 2024 by caseback

[nevenbekriev]

Yes, You are ready to make the bush needed. You don't need measuring tools. The hole must be 0.1 mm smaller than needed - just use the drill bit with such size. Ream and prepare the hole for the bush in the plate and use this hole for measure when turning the bush. Then, You can cut the bush longer. After soldering it in place, it will be easy to file it to acceptable height above the plate and ream the hole to fit the arbor pivot. Only the hub should be turned to right size.

[Neverenoughwatches]

42 minutes ago, nickelsilver said:

That's some clean turning work!

It actually shows better on the picture, i really struggled to get the graver sharp enough, a 3000 grit diamond stone was still leaving quite visible grooves in the carbide that transferred to the workpiece. The bush measures 2mm diameter and 1.4mm for the shoulder and the back hub was around 3mm....the length doesn't look it but is 1.1mm.... the one I need is half this size. The hardest part was the messing around with inadequate measuring gear and getting the graver something like usable, the actual turning I found really easy after 20 minutes of playing, i used to wood turn years ago , the scale and material doesn't compare but the actual technique is basically the same, in fact timber is worse because of the grain variation , metal is more or less consistent throughout one piece. 

50 minutes ago, caseback said:

Looks great!  Working under a microscope like you do now, you'll have no trouble making the actual part after this tryout.

Your lathe will be smiling as well and won't like to be put back in it's drawer..

Small stuff was easier than I expected Case..... hell guys that turn through a loupe have some serious skill. And it was only brass....like cutting through butter but I enjoyed it....I just need to figure out why the graver isn't honing up as well as I'd like. 

Oh and the bloody nugget that previously owned the lathe cut 2 notches in the rest for some reason ?  

40 minutes ago, nevenbekriev said:

Yes, You are ready to make the bush needed. You don't need measuring tools. The hole must be 0.1 mm smaller than needed - just use the drill bit with such size. Ream and prepare the hole for the bush in the plate and use this hole for measure when turning the bush. Then, You can cut the bush longer. After soldering it in place, it will be easy to file it to acceptable height above the plate and ream the hole to fit the arbor pivot. Only the hub should be turned to right size.

Thats true Nev, i dont . I only need the parts involved to make fitment checks......to the plate hole, the shoulder fitting inside the minute wheel and the arbor to check the bearing size. I measured the practice piece because i wanted to work to a scaled pattern. How you do this sort of work with a visor Nev just blows my mind

[tomh207]

Good first play Rich. You know as well as I do that grits for stones of any type are pretty much only relevant within a manufacture range, even then there can be a lot of variability. I’m sad though, I sharpen my kitchen knives to an arbitrary 6000 grit within a single manufacturer range, and the edge is pretty much black polish. Something to consider for gravers, are you honing the sides of the diamond?

 

Tom

@Neverenoughwatches

[Neverenoughwatches]

16 minutes ago, tomh207 said:

Good first play Rich. You know as well as I do that grits for stones of any type are pretty much only relevant within a manufacture range, even then there can be a lot of variability. I’m sad though, I sharpen my kitchen knives to an arbitrary 6000 grit within a single manufacturer range, and the edge is pretty much black polish. Something to consider for gravers, are you honing the sides of the diamond?

 

Tom

@Neverenoughwatches

Hey Tom, yep i completely agree with you, whats 3000 for one brand might be 1500 for another. I think i tried just about every grade of everything i have but could get the edge i really wanted . Yep normal proceedure of removing burrs from sharpening......honed and polished the four sides of a lozenge graver for the first inch or so  from the tip and the carbide i also used  had a mirror finish on the top edge. Ive heard a few say that they use the graver straight from a diamond grinding wheels...a low grit  grade. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

9 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Hey Tom, yep i completely agree with you, whats 3000 for one brand might be 1500 for another. I think i tried just about every grade of everything i have but could get the edge i really wanted . Yep normal proceedure of removing burrs from sharpening......honed and polished the four sides of a lozenge graver for the first inch or so  from the tip and the carbide i also used  had a mirror finish on the top edge. Ive heard a few say that they use the graver straight from a diamond grinding wheels...a low grit  grade. 

The graver's cutting edge seems to me like it has to be super polished to get a nice smooth clean cut on the work. On steel pieces I guess you could burnish the surfaces but feels very unnecessary if you can cut cleanly....i haven't tried but i think brass would be tricky to burnish....too soft.  I've had an idea that I mentioned to case about using brazing rods for stock...in particular bronze.....would make a more durable bush ......thoughts anyone ??

[caseback]

Don't sweat it. It's brass and you're shearing it off. No matter how perfect you polish the tool, under magnification you'll always see some imperfections. What matters most (OCD aside) is: will it work? (Answer: yes it will..).

I've looked at some of the brass bushings that came with my Seitz set under 22x magn. and see some marks on those as well.

[Neverenoughwatches]

3 hours ago, caseback said:

Don't sweat it. It's brass and you're shearing it off. No matter how perfect you polish the tool, under magnification you'll always see some imperfections. What matters most (OCD aside) is: will it work? (Answer: yes it will..).

I've looked at some of the brass bushings that came with my Seitz set under 22x magn. and see some marks on those as well.

I gave up on the carbide i was using, thats even if it was carbide and went back to some lozenge shaped gravers I have. Used just a simple roller sharpening jig,  2000 diamond plate and a Washita stone....pretty good result....and the brass shavings come off either very fine or thick depending how deep i go.....the edge is lasting much longer and I'm getting a good smooth finish on the brass....I'm happy now .  One trial make of the bush and fitting into an old plate will do me before the genuine job. 

I was inspecting at x40...that made me a bit critical. The piece even though quite small is much easier to make at x16......you can pick up the square shapes much better with a lower magnification.....too close and you lose the overall shape of what you're making. 

Edited November 22, 2024 by Neverenoughwatches
Your.....you're......classic grammatical error when YOU'RE not concentrating