Help with balance!

[greyke]

No, I can stand up ok, it's this balance wheel that has me pulling my hair out. I'm just a newbie so treat me gently please. I'm just beginning the process of trying to learn how to maintain and repair mechanical watches, and this has got me stumped. It's a Rotary automatic watch with an ETA 2872 movement. It was running badly when I received it and during the process of trying to regulate it on the Timegrapher it stopped running! No lectures please  I removed the balance wheel to examine it, and to my untrained eye, it looks ok. The pallet fork is working fine and flicking side to side as it should. The problem I have is that it won't now run, no matter which direction I put the balance wheel in. It swings from side to side then stops. Guessing it's something to do with the jewel thing not engaging with the pallet fork, but I have no idea how to sort it!

Is there a systematic way I can sort this out as I'm not sure whether it won't run because of me moving the timing pins. Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated. I will try and attach photos/video

sorry, don't appear to have the technical ability to add photos/video!!!

Edited November 16, 2024 by greyke
add photo

[mpe7383]

Hi, photos would really help to give you a better response, log onto here on your phone, take some pictures, then click add files and select your pictures. 

From your description, there could be any number of issues from broken pivots, hairspring issues, badly gummed up jewels etc.

When the balance swings, does the pallet move? Is the hairspring nice and flat and not rubbing on the balance cock?

[watchweasol]

Hi   “You moved the timing pins”.  Can you elaborate timing pins, if you mean banking pins you have opened a can of worms. They should not be touched unless you are familiar with why they are there and their use.  First thing to check is the balance end shake, is the balance loose,   Remove the balance and the pallet fork refit balance and use you blower to give it a puff of air, does it swing freely for several seconds ok, check the Ruby I pulse pin is not loose and intact.  Check the alignment of the pallet fork with the impulse pin at rear, no power on the train.  This will keep  you busy for w while. Pictures of the watch movement will help a lot in the diagnosis.

[RichardHarris123]

We do need photos, there's an add files button, click and select your photos. 

[Nucejoe]

11 hours ago, greyke said:

no matter which direction I put the balance wheel in. 

Will you clarify what you mean by the above. 

Google ETA 2872 balance complete, to see the spirals correct direction.  

I ma guessing you have the wrong hairspring on balance wheel.

[rjenkinsgb]

18 hours ago, greyke said:

The pallet fork is working fine and flicking side to side as it should. The problem I have is that it won't now run, no matter which direction I put the balance wheel in.

The balance needs to be rotated slightly to match the position of the pallet fork, as you fit it.

eg. Imagine you are looking at it with the fork above/behind the balance; if the fork, at the balance end, is to the right, you need to put the balance in with it rotated somewhat clockwise.

Or vice versa, if the fork is to the left, rotate the balance anticlockwise.

Whichever way around you assemble it, the as the balance turns through centre, it has to engage the fork and take it across.

 

I usually set the fork so that it suits the position of the balance with the end of the balance cock (and balance wheel) rotated away from the movement, as I find that's the easiest way to lower the balance in while supporting it.

Edited November 17, 2024 by rjenkinsgb
typo

[nevenbekriev]

We need photos, mainly to look at You hairspring. This is the thing that may have got wrong when moving 'timing pins'.

There is systematic way to search where the problem is and it is to do the free oscillations test. It means to remove the pallet fork (first mainspring is to be released) and then put balance in place and check how free it oscillates when some energy is given to it. One way is to rotate it to 180 degr. and then release and count the number of free oscillations to full stop, the other is to  just blow air at it with blower and observe how long it will oscillate, about a minute is what is expected if hairspring/pivots/bearings are OK

[greyke]

Thanks guys, sorry I haven’t responded sooner, I’ve been really busy.

The replies have given me plenty to think about and plenty to try. I’ll try and post some pics and look at some of the suggestions.

Regards

keith

[greyke]

[Paul80]

Looks like you need a new hair spring, it might be possible to correct the spring but as a newbie this would probably result in you needing a new spring anyway  

The coils sould all be equal distance apart and some of the ones on yours look tangled.

That's why your watch will not run.

[greyke]

Thank you. I'll start the long process of trying to find one!

 

[nevenbekriev]

The spring looks actually tangled. You need to watch this video.

 

[GPrideaux]

It does look tangled, but if you haven't already, demagnetise it before doing any manipulations. If your experience as a newbie is anything like mine, you've probably used tools that are magnetised and some of that may have transferred to the balance spring. It's not likely that is the only problem, but any magnetism in the spring is going to make sorting it out frustrating.