adjust quartz for accuracy

[paulskiogorki]

Hello. Some time ago I watched a video I can no longer find, in which the watchmaker had a tool to check the accuracy of a quartz watch and tweak it by adjusting the trimmer and then check the results. What is the measuring device called?

Thanks
Paul

[AndyGSi]

Some are called quartz pulse testers but not all show the actual time and then there's the Hortec Flastest.

Not all Quartz watches have a trimmer for adjustment.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006099270185.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.139.1ed21802dxhmIh

https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/horotec-flashtest

[watchweasol]

In my experience repairing /testing quartz watches the likes of the Horotec are good as is the quartz watches analyser which I use by Le Arsi. 1168-1NC86.  The Le Arsi one being a bit cheaper with all the functions.  I did have one of these Indian made pulse testers which broke and when I took it to bits to repair it was cobbled crap so binned it. basically you get what you pay for.  If you want information on the analyser give me a PM.

.

[AndyGSi]

42 minutes ago, watchweasol said:

In my experience repairing /testing quartz watches the likes of the Horotec are good as is the quartz watches analyser which I use by Le Arsi. 1168-1NC86.  The Le Arsi one being a bit cheaper with all the functions.  I did have one of these Indian made pulse testers which broke and when I took it to bits to repair it was cobbled crap so binned it. basically you get what you pay for.  If you want information on the analyser give me a PM.

.

The problem with this type of tester is that it doesn't tell you how accurate the watch is.

[JohnR725]

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16 hours ago, paulskiogorki said:

What is the measuring device called?

basically the same name as you would call a device for timing mechanical which would be a timing machine. Witschi makes them not cheap. Often times was some of the machines is an add-on accessory. Can find vintage ones on eBay at a variety of prices although I'm rather curious as to why you would like to adjust your watch?

then the link below as a quartz testing machine which will do accuracy. You can download the users guide when you're there.

https://www.esslinger.com/horotec-flash-tester-quartz-watch-tester/

[watchweasol]

Hi.  The Le Arsi is a diagnostic tool. For timing etc I use a Horotec which does quartz, mechanical watches and clocks. It’s a brilliant tool quite compact but it’s not made anlylonger.

[Kimmoth]

Surely such devices are unnecessary if you're just prepared to wait a bit? Set the time, check it a day later, tweak, repeat until happy, no?

[AndyGSi]

5 hours ago, Kimmoth said:

Surely such devices are unnecessary if you're just prepared to wait a bit? Set the time, check it a day later, tweak, repeat until happy, no?

Why wait when you can get something with other functions for <£30 and do it in minutes.

[MikeEll]

6 hours ago, Kimmoth said:

Surely such devices are unnecessary if you're just prepared to wait a bit? Set the time, check it a day later, tweak, repeat until happy, no?

that method can get pretty tedious, especially when running a business doing this sort of thing.  It can take weeks sometimes to dial in a watch accurately, or I can pop it on the timing machine and adjust it in a few seconds.  A timing machine also provides a good indication of the current running health of a watch, which is almost impossible to measure otherwise.

[praezis]

2 hours ago, AndyGSi said:

Why wait when you can get something with other functions for <£30 and do it in minutes.

Andy, do really believe this item can test the rate error of a quartz watch? Sorry, but I don‘t. Where are the technical data of this toy?

Frank

[AndyGSi]

30 minutes ago, praezis said:

Andy, do really believe this item can test the rate error of a quartz watch? Sorry, but I don‘t. Where are the technical data of this toy?

Frank

Yes they do and from my tests they're accurate enough to be
showing 0.5 to 1.0 s/d resulting in 15 to 30 seconds over 28 days.

Also tested one that was showing 5 s/d which resulted
in a little over 2 minutes loss over the 28 days.

[praezis]

16 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

Yes they do and from my tests they're accurate enough to be
showing 0.5 to 1.0 s/d

Thank you! Ok, that is what I suspected, an ordinary quartz inside. This accuracy or better you can also get from a Weishi or any  soundcard based TM.

For real quartz accuracy tests you would need a reference about 10x better than a quartz. 

But of course you can make comparison tests and adjustments with that device or with any of the mentioned ones, if you already know the error of of the quartz watch (as you will do with mechanical ones): just change rate by the difference.

Only precondition: quartz frequency of your tester must stay invariable during test time(s). This however is uncertain after switching on and the following 15-30 minutes.

Frank

[AndyGSi]

1 minute ago, praezis said:

For real quartz accuracy tests you would need a reference about 10x better than a quartz. 

So what quartz movements are you working on that require an accuracy
greater then the +/- 20 seconds per month stated by most manufacturers.

[praezis]

46 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

So what quartz movements are you working on that require an accuracy
greater then the +/- 20 seconds per month stated by most manufacturers.

Besides the fact that trimmers disappeared many decades ago: I would expect +/- 3 s/month after an adjustment, what is something like a standard (0.1 s/day).
That requires a tester accurate to +/- 0.01 s/day.

Frank

[SwissSeiko]

3 hours ago, AndyGSi said:

Yes they do and from my tests they're accurate enough to be
showing 0.5 to 1.0 s/d resulting in 15 to 30 seconds over 28 days.

Also tested one that was showing 5 s/d which resulted
in a little over 2 minutes loss over the 28 days.

Andy, Id like to get your thoughts on the Flashtest. Do you recommend it? Im needing a quartz timing machine for my SGUS account, and im not sure which one to buy

[AndyGSi]

7 minutes ago, SwissSeiko said:

Andy, Id like to get your thoughts on the Flashtest. Do you recommend it? Im needing a quartz timing machine for my SGUS account, and im not sure which one to buy

The Flastest does look a nice piece of kit but I don't think I just justify the price for myself.

[SwissSeiko]

51 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

The Flastest does look a nice piece of kit but I don't think I just justify the price for myself.

It's actually pretty reasonable compared to the other ones I see online that can get into the $1100-$1500 range. This would be for professional use. I really only need the timing aspect of if, as I have the other horotech turbo and a good coil/battery tester. But having them all in one would be a plus.

[watchweasol]

I would like to see pictures of theses marvelous quartz testers as all the low price ones I have had were crap. So much so I built my own  before acquiring the Horotec.

[AndyGSi]

1 hour ago, watchweasol said:

I would like to see pictures of theses marvelous quartz testers as all the low price ones I have had were crap. So much so I built my own  before acquiring the Horotec.

What pictures do you want to see as I've just got a second one for work and haven't had any problems with either of them.

Edit

EFM8 Microcontroller driven

 

Edited December 5, 2024 by AndyGSi

[JohnR725]

8 hours ago, AndyGSi said:

Yes they do and from my tests they're accurate enough to be
showing 0.5 to 1.0 s/d resulting in 15 to 30 seconds over 28 days.

Also tested one that was showing 5 s/d which resulted
in a little over 2 minutes loss over the 28 days.

Interesting because?

I'm attaching specifications of Omega quartz watches because we have nice specifications for quite a few watches and we can work out a approximation of what a quartz watch can and cannot do. So excluding the best timekeeping and one of the extreme worst the majority of quartz watches keep time within -9 / +15 Seconds per month.

Then your timing machine has a problem as well let me give you something that witschi has the commenting on the effect of temperature and did notice when they give a suggestion of rate it's in seconds per day but it is a fraction of a second.

 

17 hours ago, Kimmoth said:

Surely such devices are unnecessary if you're just prepared to wait a bit? Set the time, check it a day later, tweak, repeat until happy, no?

You run into several problems first most quartz watches no longer have trimmer capacitors to adjust you cannot adjust the rate at all. Then whatever you're comparing You are quartz watch to has to keep time better than the quartz watch by quite a bit. Then were talking about seconds per month fractions of a second per day and measuring fractions of a second per day is not impossible but in the case of the quartz watch would be impossible. Typically a quartz watch would step once per second which means you cannot break its accuracy down to less than one second. Mechanical watches typically at 18,000 beats per hour there secondhand step five times per second and you can get a fractional seconds. So can you regulate your quartz watch yes if it as a trimmer and if you want to take months to do it.

 

 

8641_WI_18_QUARTZ MOVEMENTS - TECHNICAL CHARACTERISTICS E cousinsuk.pdf

[praezis]

John, you didn‘t mention the additional issue of inhibition that is used with modern quartz watches …

[AndyGSi]

To clarify I'm using my quartz tester on non adjustable quartz movements as a quick test to confirm
the movement is within the range quoted by most manufacturers i.e. +/- 20 Seconds per month.

I think the figures quoted by @praezis of +/- 3 s/month after an adjustment although may be
ideal are totally impractical unless the movement has temperature and voltage compensation.

[HectorLooi]

I have one of those testers from AliExpress. It measures the period over 12 seconds then flashes the results for a few seconds.

The only problem is it can't measure those 2 hands movements that pulse once in 20 seconds. It only works for movements that tick every second.

[watchweasol]

Hi Andy   Is that one a DIY or purpose built. It looks professional built. The cheap  ones made in India by Rohan industries were cobbled together poor soldering and wiring.  Always interested in tools.   Who made the one shown .

Hi. Attached is the training manual supplied by Witschi regarding both mechanical and quartz watches.

witschi_training_course.pdf

[GPrideaux]

I struggle to see the value in using a piece of test equipment built around a quartz crystal oscillator to measure the rate of a watch built around a quartz crystal oscillator. Unless the test equipment is calibrated and certified by an accredited measurement lab you'd have no way of knowing how much of any difference measured was from error in the watch or in the test equipment itself.