My first service, still a lot to learn and chasing low amplitude

[caseback]

25 minutes ago, neevo said:

Oh sure. I just have zero clue what to do.

Making it much easier to wreck it.

Seriously, there are several good video's on the subject out there. You could also, like neverenoughwatches suggest, post some video's here and let us have a go at it.

[neevo]

26 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Can we see the balance fitted to the cock and in the watch. If there is a twist or a bend just where the stud or the collet is, then this is when it will be most visible. 

Yeah. I took it off in readiness for the new one but let me pop it back on and snap some pics.

In doing so this time the stud snapped back in and I have a fantastic swing of the balance wheel. I wonder if last time I hadn’t quite gotten the spring within the fingers of the regulator.

Should I try and put the pallet fork back in and see if it is improved on the timegrapher?

I don’t appear to have any coils touching again.

Moving the regulator doesn’t seem to affect the spring too much. However I think the pins are touching on the inside a bit.

I took a photo of the stud in its natural position before I clicked it in.

I put the pallet fork back in and whoa, I have my amplitude back!

Beat error is still massive but I haven’t touched the regulator fingers yet.

 

The issue is definitely in the hairspring. I’ve been able to play around with a few things and I’m noticing I can get the and to bring the beat error down if I remove the effect of the regulator pins as much as possible.

But the rate is way off which makes me think there is still an issue with the spring somewhere. I was going to let all the power down and see if I can get the spring centered in the regulator pins. Is that a good move or is the rate way too far off and I need to look elsewhere?

 

Whilst it’s not working properly I’m actually really pleased I’ve at least been able to get the amplitude back.

[nevenbekriev]

OK, the spring looks good enough. It is not perfect, but can work well with correct positioning of the stud. The stud can be adjusted in two ways:

1. It can be moved in/out (closer to or away from the center).

2. It can be rotated.

By 1 You achieve best centering of the spring and by 2 You achieve centering of the outer coil between the regulator pins. Changing 2 will slightly change 1, so repeat adjustments until satisfied.

The regulator can be adjusted too like 1 and 2. 1 will affect centering and 2 will affect distance between pins (free play of the end curve between pins).

[neevo]

51 minutes ago, nevenbekriev said:

OK, the spring looks good enough. It is not perfect, but can work well with correct positioning of the stud. The stud can be adjusted in two ways:

1. It can be moved in/out (closer to or away from the center).

2. It can be rotated.

By 1 You achieve best centering of the spring and by 2 You achieve centering of the outer coil between the regulator pins. Changing 2 will slightly change 1, so repeat adjustments until satisfied.

The regulator can be adjusted too like 1 and 2. 1 will affect centering and 2 will affect distance between pins (free play of the end curve between pins).

I’ll let the power down and adjust the stud and pins. Will report back.

Can I check my understanding on a couple of points.

1. The impulse jewel is (I think) centered in the pallet fork at rest. Yet the beat error is huge. Is that because the hair spring is always contacting the regulator pins on 1 side? Shortening the spring effective length?

2. If the spring is shorter due to hitting the pins. This would cause the very fast rate?

[nevenbekriev]

1: No. If the amplitude is good (seems it is), then beat error means You have not adjusted correctly the 'zero' position of the balance. To adjust correctly the stud holder position without timegrapher, You may need to remove the pallet fork as it will not let the balance stay free. Of course, You can use timegrapher and see what it shows. It has nothing to do with the fact that the spring contacts the regulator pin.

2: The pins limit the length of the spring, that is why they are put there. The spring is as long as the pins determine it. There is timegrapher photo where it shows 7sec/day. How this then turns to 400? What happened?

[neevo]

I think I understand the issue with the beat error then. That makes sense why I can’t get rid of a huge beat error by putting the stud back to roughly where it was before.

I took my time to align the stud and boy what an effort that was. It’s so small and tiny movements just bounce the hairspring between the regulator pins. But eventually I was able to get something that looked right.

Then I was able to get this on the timegrapher:

 

I’m sure something is still not right though as to get these values my stud adjuster is almost against the cock and I have to adjust the rate down a bit.

But again I’m happy I’m getting results that are going in the right direction.

Edit (update): I have been able to regulate the watch pretty well.

I suspect the curve on the hairspring is not 100% perfect as I’m getting a bit of jumping around as I adjust the rate, but this is a million times better than I’ve seen since I started this thread.

Wondering what next?

Edited January 18 by neevo
Updated

[nevenbekriev]

18 hours ago, neevo said:

Wondering what next?

Well this is pretty good result. You still need to check in other positions and after some time past (usually 24H after full wind) Hopefully, if all OK, then just enjoy the watch. If something not as it should be, then we will discuss and decide how to correct.

[mikepilk]

14 minutes ago, nevenbekriev said:

Well this is pretty good result. You still need to check in other positions and after some time past (usually 24H after full wind) Hopefully, if all OK, then just enjoy the watch. If something not as it should be, then we will discuss and decide how to correct.

That is a great result. Well done.  I have some older Seiko's I have been unable to get such amplitudes and flat timegrapher plots.

Edited January 19 by mikepilk

[neevo]

Oh, wow! I wasn’t expecting that. Let me check some other dial positions and if anything is well off I will report back.

Given I have a new balance in the way, would you still replace the one on there? Or just leave it alone if it’s working.

Edited January 19 by neevo

[GPrideaux]

6 hours ago, neevo said:

Given I have a new balance in the way, would you still replace the one on there?

If something's working perfectly it makes no sense to replace it.

[Neverenoughwatches]

10 hours ago, neevo said:

Oh, wow! I wasn’t expecting that. Let me check some other dial positions and if anything is well off I will report back.

Given I have a new balance in the way, would you still replace the one on there? Or just leave it alone if it’s working.

Vertical positions of the watch might throw up a couple of issues, they should be checked though. As you have it at moment in dial down position probably is one of the least most held in real life...supinated wrist.... unless you spend a lot of time telling folk "whatever" or on your back...but we wont go there . Dial up, crown down ( walking ) and crown left i would say are most common....crown left being hands on a vehical steering wheel if you drive as taught. I guess we are all different mechanically .

Like the saying goes " if it ain't broke dont fix it "   then if nothing breaks you dont learn anything either.

[neevo]

With a full wind here are the results of the timegrapher:

DD +5 265

DU+10 283

CD +3 267

CL +7 272 (CR looking at back)

CR -22 240 (CL looking at back)

I think I have those CL and CR positions correct but let me know if not. I also believe the worst position is generally CR or do I have that incorrect too?

Is that CR position a worry or just put the watch back together.

Edited January 20 by neevo

[tomh207]

That looks very good to me. I’m pretty sure you are correct with crown right, that is where poise issues end up with watches adjusted to 5 positions.

 

Tom

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, neevo said:

With a full wind here are the results of the timegrapher:

DD +5 265

DU+10 283

CD +3 267

CL +7 272 (CR looking at back)

CR -22 240 (CL looking at back)

I think I have those CL and CR positions correct but let me know if not. I also believe the worst position is generally CR or do I have that incorrect too?

Is that CR position a worry or just put the watch back together.

I wouldn't say a worry, the other vertical rates and amplitudes are very good, so close to the horizontal figures which is great for positional timekeeping.  Maybe a little poise error somewhere between cl and cr and a noticeable drop in amplitude...how long did you leave it to settle after changing positions ? For some first attempts really good, i wouldn't mess any further with it apart from to check again after 24 hours...which is a better indication of how its performing. 

We dont perform so well when we haven't eaten for 24 hours and feel hungry, the watch probably feels the same way.

[neevo]

Thanks everyone! Appreciate everyone’s very kind, patient support to get me here. I know not the most challenging thread, but I’ve learnt a huge amount and have a lot more confidence.

Watch is back together and I’m going to enjoy wearing it again for a bit.

[neevo]

Happy to report it’s been keeping excellent time on the wrist too. Calling this one closed.

Feel a lot more comfortable to finally attempt the service on my Omega Cal.565

[neevo]

Updating on the Standard 96-4 I have on the bench. I bought a rusty donor movement off the auction site and took the chaton off it.

Night are getting the end stone off the cap but in the end some rodico whilst holding it did the trick. Super small getting some oil on the stone but I find my heavier steel tweezers are better at holding the small stones with less risk of them pinging.

All back in and the movement kicked right in to gear, which is promising. Haven’t put it on the timegrapher yet but I’m hopeful for some good numbers.

I also bought a replacement click spring, but also bought some spring steel in 0.2mm and today I had a go at making a spring.

I was able to fashion a really good looking and functional spring. However there was a fatal flaw… 0.2mm is too think and it fouls the ratchet wheel. It’s unfortunate as I can’t easily source music wire in anything smaller than 0.2mm and my guess is I’d need 1.0 to 1.5mm.

So that part is on hold now until the replacement part arrives.

The NH35 continues to work great on the arm. I need to speed it up a bit after wearing it for a while as it’s losing about 50 seconds over a week but that’s an easy job with the timegrapher.