French mantel clock - help to identify

[tyl]

Gents - relative has an old (?) french mantel clock in a sterling case.  I polished it for the first tim e in some thirty years and wound it.  It keeps perfect time but will only run if lying on its side.  Assuming something makes it bind when in proper position.   Since it is not in my hometown of Atlanta, GA, and owned by a relative, I am not going to attempt to make a repair.

However I wonder if anyone can make a guess from the pictures the name of the maker and perhaps the age?  The only words inscribed that I see are French and Hands on the back.  I did not remove it from the case so identification may be a problem.

 

In any event appreciate any comment.

 

Thx.

[RichardHarris123]

The hallmarks look English but usually there would be a town mark. 

[oldhippy]

This is a small Silver French Timepiece I expect the duration to be 8 days. It has a platform escapement. The dial has roman numerals and the hands are in the style called spade.  The marks are a bit strange to me the lion represents Birmingham but I do not know the others it is possible the marks mean it's imported, if you or someone who knows more about hallmarks could unlock  those it will give the exact date of the case. These small clocks are normally from the late 1800's into the 1900's. 

As it only works on its side it makes me think the balance staff is causing problems such as it could be broken, chipped or a problem with a jewel or just lack of oil, I can only say this from what you say.  If I could see the movement I would be able to tell you more. In good condition these clocks can sell from around £800 upwards so look after it. I have just noticed a tiny chip in the dial just above 3 that might change the value a little. 

Edited December 13, 2024 by oldhippy

[AndyGSi]

O Hallmark is either 1913 or 1938 as there's very little difference between them.

Can't quite make out the first letter of what I presume is the makers mark ?WT

Edit

I'd lean towards 1913

Edited December 13, 2024 by AndyGSi

[oldhippy]

That movement is older then those dates. Can you make out that other mark?

[AndyGSi]

This is the list but I suppose when you look at actual hallmarks it could be 1863.

[tyl]

Excellent; I will forward these comments to my relative.  Actually pretty exciting.

Much appreciated.

 

[AndyGSi]

49 minutes ago, tyl said:

Excellent; I will forward these comments to my relative.  Actually pretty exciting.

Much appreciated.

 

A better photo of the makers mark would help further.

[oldhippy]

The 1863 fits nicely to this clock.  

[tyl]

Better pic of marks.  Initials are JWB,then lion, then cat face with whiskers, then letter O.

 

Might help. 

[AndyGSi]

26 minutes ago, tyl said:

Better pic of marks.  Initials are JWB,then lion, then cat face with whiskers, then letter O.

 

Might help. 

JWB is James William Benson

Edited December 13, 2024 by AndyGSi

[tyl]

Found this.    Any idea of value - working and not working?

Thanks to AndyGSi for identifying James William Benson; excellent.  Now wondering about what year???  Possibly 1909.

Edited December 13, 2024 by tyl

[AndyGSi]

1 hour ago, tyl said:

Found this.    Any idea of value - working and not working?

Thanks to AndyGSi for identifying James William Benson; excellent.  Now wondering about what year???  Possibly 1909.

Look above, 1863

Edit

Sorry the 1863 is based on a Birmingham Hallmark so first thought was London 1889.

Then realised shield shape for 1909.

Looking at other info I would have expected pre 1892 / 1897 (depending where you look) when it became JWB Ltd.

To add, Os are one of the worst date letters ever to work with.

Numerous Edits Later.

@oldhippy Does 1909 fit with the movement?

Edited December 14, 2024 by AndyGSi

[oldhippy]

I did say  late 1800's into the 1900's. Yes that fits nicely.  

[tyl]

Going with 1909.  Ideas about market value - working and not working?  Dare I take it apart and look for problem?  Not sure I am comfortable with that since I have no ownership.

 

 

 

Thx.

[transporter]

On 12/14/2024 at 7:31 PM, tyl said:

Going with 1909.  Ideas about market value - working and not working?  Dare I take it apart and look for problem?  Not sure I am comfortable with that since I have no ownership.

 

 

 

Thx.

If you have no ownership and arent comfortable working on clocks then I would leave it alone if I were you.

[oldhippy]

If you haven't any experience with clocks do not take this one apart. You need experience not only in clock movement but also platform escapements. This is to valuable to play around with. You should start with a simple time piece or a 30 alarm clock such as this sort of thing. 

 

[tyl]

Agree with you - do not take it apart.  However I am interested in finding out what is meant by platform escapement.  Will ask Mr. Google.  Very interesting. 

Thx again.

[oldhippy]

Type in google platform escapement then click on Images and you will see lots of platform escapements of various types and sizes.  

[tyl]

To all - many thanks for your help this year.

 

I hope all of you had a merry(happy) Christmas.