Making faceplate, question about clamps

caseback · December 23, 2024

As "factory" faceplates are ridiculously expensive these days, I decided to make one myself. I have the plate on the watchmakers lathe now and there's no runout, so now it's time to make some clamps. My question is this: I have seen several designs. They all have a seperate setting screw between top and bottom part to tilt the upper part. They differ however on the way the upper and lower parts are clamped. Some have a seperate screw for fixing the bottom part and another for tightening the upper part. Others have 1 single screw for tightening both the upper and lower part in one go. Are there any pro's and cons you guys are aware of?

Edited December 23, 2024 by caseback

nickelsilver · December 24, 2024

Have you looked at the machining involved with the clamps? Have you looked at enough to see there's a general theme? These old guys weren't dumb. That the flat part where the part registers is within fractions of a hundredth of a mm in height? The plate is (relatively) simple, if you have a lathe that can face straight over 100mm. But the clamps? Yeah 3d print them and kind of do ok work and wonder what all the fuss was when folks made stuff out of metal. But Hardinge and Levin and Derbyshire and Lorch and Boley and Boley Leinen and a dozen more knew what they were doing, and even at current Ebay prices are worth every penny.

If you want to machine the clamps out of (any) metal, obviously time is of no essence, and so you can do them correctly, using granité plates to verify their trueness, even hand scraping to get them true.

My advice, if you want to actually use a faceplate, is find a Hardinge or Levin and buy it and start faceplating. If you just want to make one then knock yourself out.

Edited December 24, 2024 by nickelsilver

caseback · December 24, 2024

1 hour ago, nickelsilver said:

Have you looked at the machining involved with the clamps?

Thnx for the warning, but yes I have.

I don't "need" a faceplate at the moment, but earlier I already had a project where it would have been nice to actually have one. So this seems like a nice project. This is strictly a hobby for me and I like (love!) making and fixing stuff and bringing home stray machines that I can fix/improve. My wife eventually stopped asking me what I will be using any "new" bit of machinery for, because the usual answer is "I don't know yet. Probably making more tools" .

The clamps will probably be machined from ground flat stock to skip some steps, but I could use coarser stock as well as I have the tools needed to do the grinding myself (surface grinder, granite plate).

What clamp type does you faceplate have (1 or 2 screws?). Have you used the other type as well? Do you have any preferences?

nickelsilver · December 24, 2024

9 hours ago, caseback said:

What clamp type does you faceplate have (1 or 2 screws?). Have you used the other type as well? Do you have any preferences?

All the clamps I have used have been a variation of some sort of this one in the photo (two clamps there, one assembled one apart). The jack screw is to allow the clamp to contact the part parallel, which increases the clamping area and also reduces the chance of dinging the part.

I do do quite a lot of faceplate work, and many years ago figured out that I prefer the setup in the third pic. The part is glued to a brass support (second pic), which is centered on the plate optically and held with simple clamps. I can glue and unglue newly made and delicately finished parts with no damage, and also handy for small or odd parts (I think that's a LeCoultre 409 mainplate on the support).

Edited December 24, 2024 by nickelsilver

Neverenoughwatches · December 24, 2024

2 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

All the clamps I have used have been a variation of some sort of this one in the photo (two clamps there, one assembled one apart). The jack screw is to allow the clamp to contact the part parallel, which increases the clamping area and also reduces the chance of dinging the part.

I do do quite a lot of faceplate work, and many years ago figured out that I prefer the setup in the third pic. The part is glued to a brass support (second pic), which is centered on the plate optically and held with simple clamps. I can glue and unglue newly made and delicately finished parts with no damage, and also handy for small or odd parts (I think that's a LeCoultre 409 mainplate on the support).

Is there an advantage with this set-up compared to just a big brass wax chuck ?

nickelsilver · December 24, 2024

3 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Is there an advantage with this set-up compared to just a big brass wax chuck ?

Well, it's essentially a big-ass (haha) wax chuck. The advantage is being able to glue parts on conveniently; I use super glue (Loctite 480), then the brass block goes in acetone and a few minutes later the part is off and clean. Since I knock around the block to get it true on the faceplate the part is never at risk.

I used to do a perpetual calendar where every hole for a jewel in every bridge got "uprighted" in the faceplate. 11 on the movement side, about that many on the dial side. Mainplate I would screw down to a similar brass block that was purpose-made (I did a lot of these); I could do all the holes in a couple of hours.

caseback · December 24, 2024

30 minutes ago, nickelsilver said:

Well, it's essentially a big-ass (haha) wax chuck.

I imagine the grid-pattern on these help with both hardening and softening the glue. Did you put it there yourself (if so: how?) or is it a ready bought product?

nickelsilver · December 24, 2024

2 hours ago, caseback said:

I imagine the grid-pattern on these help with both hardening and softening the glue. Did you put it there yourself (if so: how?) or is it a ready bought product?

Yes to both, and most importantly the part glues super flat. The grooves are done with a checkering file, and the top of the block gets a skim cut on the faceplate so the surface is really parallel to the bottom. Part sits on the block, drop of glue on a piece of brass or whatever, then I pick up and feed some in with an oiler here and there around the part. It wicks in to the grooves, which also provide "tooth" for holding.

For something with a decent amount of surface area, putting glue on that surface then the part onto a smooth holder can result in significant out-of-flat (hydraulics).

Edited December 24, 2024 by nickelsilver