bent wheel shaft

[rph952]

I could use some advice on this long-shaft center wheel that goes to a Zaria 2009 movement. This gear stacks with another gear and goes through the other side where the hands attach. That's why it's so long. It looks to be bent. Is it something that needs fixing? If so, do you have a technique? Thanks.

 

[AndyGSi]

Yes it needs to be repaired or replaced or the seconds hand won't fit.

You need to support it below the bend and then with a metal tube over to straighten it, maybe with a little heat.

Take it slowly as you don't want to over bend it. 

[rph952]

Thanks for your comment. Would a pin vice work? When I took off the hands they seemed fine. Still, it should be straight.

[AndyGSi]

9 minutes ago, rph952 said:

Thanks for your comment. Would a pin vice work? When I took off the hands they seemed fine. Still, it should be straight.

A pin vice may work but if you're just thinking about gripping the tip to lever it you won't get the same feel as you would with a tube.

[rph952]

Wow, this is so delicate. I don't think I made much of an improvement, if any. Used a needle stake. I'll see if it gives me problems and deal with it at that time. Thanks.

[AndyGSi]

13 minutes ago, rph952 said:

Wow, this is so delicate. I don't think I made much of an improvement, if any. Used a needle stake. I'll see if it gives me problems and deal with it at that time. Thanks.

Pity you're not in the UK or I'd just send you another movement.

[Neverenoughwatches]

I've managed to straighten an extended third wheel pivot a couple of times. They're buggers for bending when the indirect center seconds drive wheel is removed. Think I rolled the pivots between two flat steel bars

If you don't get those straight, the wheel intermittently disengages with the seconds pinion. I remember doing something with the 5 spoke wheel's hub as well. 

Anyways rolling is a good way to straighten out stufft that is round and malleable. 

[rph952]

OK, I tried again with some rolling and now I'm satisfied with the results. Thanks.

[rph952]

It's alive! The watch is +12-20 without regulation. Overall, I'm happy with the Zaria movement. It's well-designed and thought out for a small movement. The long center wheel seems problematic, but sacrifices are made for size. The watch suffers in the "looks" department, which keeps the price down. The yoke spring went flying but I found it on the floor after a short search with the magnet.

[rph952]

I re-cased the watch but now I have two issues. First, it keeps great time on the timegrapher when dial down, but dial up it slows to a crawl. I took off the hands and they have nothing to do with it. Second, the movement fits loose in the case. So when winding the watch the movement moves. I have the retaining ring located properly. I own a duplicate watch and it doesn't have these issues. The case ring is the same and in the same orientation. The crystals look to be at the same height. I'm puzzled. To eliminate the possibility of a broken balance staff I can swap balances. Any ideas?

Edited January 8 by rph952
added thought

[GPrideaux]

A big difference between DU and DD suggests an issue with the balance cock jewels or pivot, or excessive balance end shake allowing the balance to touch the centre wheel or something else when turned dial up. Or possibly the opposite: perhaps it's running fast when dial down because of jewel or end shake issues and slows down to normal when dial up. The relative amplitudes DU vs DD should give you a clue as to which end to focus your attention on.

Regarding being loose, doesn't this movement have case clamps that secure it? As always, photos would help.

[Neverenoughwatches]

Take out the balance and post some pictures of both pivots. It's better than just swapping things around. I've know folk to get all confused swapping parts from different donors, not knowing what came from were. Determine first what if anything is wrong with the original parts.

[rph952]

OK, it was simple. The cap jewel for the balance was missing! That's the way it came. I thought it was odd when I took out the chatone, but I'm learning. Now the watch is running great up or down. Thanks!

The loose movement is more of an issue. I suspect the original movement ring was not provided and this is a substitute. I tried the ring from the other watch, which has a small tab, but I can't get it to go in and I don't want to use any more force for what is clearly a misfit, so that tells me it's not a match even though they're the same watch. The tab (see pic ring on the right) looks like it is needed in the watch I'm working on. My movement ring doesn't have one and the ring is thinner. Not sure how to proceed.

Just for fun. On a different watch, the Westclox, I needed a new balance so I ordered one. NOS no less; it's at least 40 years old. Well, the Seiko folks packed it in junk foam, which rotted out and glommed onto the hairspring and it was toast! The seller told me that Seiko fixed their packaging flaw, after inspecting his stock. Watches are fun...

[Neverenoughwatches]

43 minutes ago, rph952 said:

, it was simple. The cap jewel for the balance was missing! That's the way it came. I thought it was odd when I took out the chatone, but I'm learning. Now the watch is running great up or down. Thanks

Did you have another correct one ?

46 minutes ago, rph952 said:

NOS no less; it's at least 40 years old. Well, the Seiko folks packed it in junk foam, which rotted out and glommed onto the hairspring and it was toast! The seller told me that Seiko fixed their

Not just seiko, i have bought many balance complete in job lots, the ones in round plastic containers packed with foam. Strange stuff that appears to be very hygroscopic,  deteriorates almost completely over the hairspring making it completely unusable covered in iron oxide.

[rph952]

Yes, I used the jewel out of the duplicate watch I bought recently.

[nevenbekriev]

You just need to lift the tongs rounded with circles a little up.

They are meant to act as springs. The back cover must press them and the whole ring and thus to press the movement towards the case bottom. Of course, You can use the other ring after grinding the tab - it's presence is not important at all.

[rph952]

OK, I've got everything working. I think I tried bending up the prongs and it didn't help, but I can try again. I wrapped a piece of 28 gauge wire around the movement ring and that was enough to stabilize the movement.

I got it to +17 s/d, 322 amplitude, 0.2 beat error.

Overall, a nice movement for its size, but the case and dial aren't much to look at. Thanks for your suggestions.

[rph952]

On 1/8/2025 at 10:11 PM, nevenbekriev said:

You just need to lift the tongs rounded with circles a little up.

They are meant to act as springs. The back cover must press them and the whole ring and thus to press the movement towards the case bottom. Of course, You can use the other ring after grinding the tab - it's presence is not important at all.

You gave good advice. I bent the prongs up and that fixed it.