Barrel Arbour Removal Tip

[Curare]

Hi All,

Always struggled with removing the barrel arbour without pinging it across the room or pulling the mainspring out with it.

I now screw the ratchet wheel screw into the arbour and easy peasy out it comes, gives you something for your tweezers to grip on.

Haven't tried to use the method for re-installation yet as the screw head is rather large and obscures the view, maybe find a screw with similar thread but with a small head on it.

Regards & Happy New Year to all

CJ

 

[HectorLooi]

Yes. This procedure resulted in one of my most spectacular, heart-stopping accidents in watchmaking. 

I was struggling to remove a particularly stubborn arbor from from the barrel and the mainspring decided to fly out of the barrel in one direction, while flinging the arbor in the opposite direction. I stopped and listened carefully to the ricochets to echo-locate where the parts landed. By some miracle I managed to find the arbor.

There are specialized arbor tweezers by Bergeon for this specific task, but in typical Bergeon way, it comes with a ridiculous price and several sizes.

I modified a couple of cheap pin tongs from Cousins to grip the arbor and safely remove it from the mainspring. It sure makes the task less daunting.

[watchweasol]

. Hi. If this procedure causes you problems with flyers  do it in side a large polythene bag to capture the bits as they try to escape

you can do the same with click spring removal

[mikepilk]

I grip the arbor firmly with some tweezers, then insert an old oiler between the first coil of the spring and the arbor, and apply some force outwards to open the first coil a touch. This frees the hook and makes it easier to lift the arbor out. 

11 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

I was struggling to remove a particularly stubborn arbor from from the barrel and the mainspring decided to fly out of the barrel in one direction, while flinging the arbor in the opposite direction. I stopped and listened carefully to the ricochets to echo-locate where the parts landed. By some miracle I managed to find the arbor.

I too have had such moments when spring, barrel, lid and arbor ping around the room. I have laminate floors, so wait to hear where the parts fall, then set off in search 

[Razz]

It is expensive at around $60US, but this arbor vise works taking out and putting back in.  I lost a barrel for several weeks (was in a closest 6 feet behind where I was sitting when the spring let go); never again...

[JohnR725]

3 hours ago, Razz said:

It is expensive at around $60US,

it's even more expensive than you think because they come in different sizes. On the other hand how much time you save searching the universe for misplaced barrel arbor's?

 

 

 

 

[mbwatch]

20 hours ago, mikepilk said:

so wait to hear where the parts fall

Sometimes the barrel is launched spinning with such velocity that I can hear it skidding and rolling against a wall for several seconds.

[Malocchio]

I put the mainspring loop on a staking block and just poke the arbor in the hole

[JohnR725]

5 hours ago, mbwatch said:

Sometimes the barrel is launched spinning with such velocity that I can hear it skidding and rolling against a wall for several seconds.

Things can get much more interesting as the size of the mainspring and barrel increase in size.

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

If you're worried about the spring coming out with the arbor,  place a plastjc disk over the barrel with a hole in it large enough to work the arbor out and small enough to retain the mainspring. 

Or use a large barrel lid over the top. Or fit the barrel into a larger barrel and put the lid on it. 

[linux]

6 hours ago, Malocchio said:

I put the mainspring loop on a staking block and just poke the arbor in the hole

You take the ms out first obviously   I saw this a couple days ago on a wristwatch revival video and it looked very easy.

[nickelsilver]

I have the whole set of barrel arbor holders. This happens when you live in Watch Land and frequent flea markets (I got a lot of other cool sh!t too).

 

I use then rarely, but appreciate them when I do. Well worn stout nickel tweezers are my go-to. And I do occasionally search the floor, and not just for barrel arbors.

 

The purpose made tools work well, but good pinvices well employed can work as well.

[Neverenoughwatches]

9 hours ago, linux said:

You take the ms out first obviously   I saw this a couple days ago on a wristwatch revival video and it looked very easy.

That defeats the objective of using the arbor vice. Once the mainspring is removed from the barrel, the arbor is easily taken out. Its the leap of the mainspring from the barrel as the last two or so coils are about to be removed. If the arbor is still attached then , thats when you're going to be on your knees searching for it and probably the barrel as well. Best to get the arbor out safe and sound before taking out the mainspring . Unless the idea is to put the barrel assembly minus the lid upside-down over a big hole on a staking block and then push out the arbor. That idea seems to have problems attached to it, lining up the arbor and stake hole and not being able to see to work the hook free. If an idea at all then cover the barrel with the mainspring facing up or put the barrel into a larger barrel with an enlarged hole in its lid.

[VWatchie]

On 12/31/2024 at 6:35 AM, JohnR725 said:

it's even more expensive than you think because they come in different sizes. On the other hand how much time you save searching the universe for misplaced barrel arbor's?

This is one of those tools that I appreciate the most. I now have two sizes of this tool (1.0 and 1.5 millimetres), which cover most of my needs. There is at least one interesting and entertaining thread about these tools:

"Barrel Arbor Holder vs. Pin Vice"

 

[rehajm]

16 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

Things can get much more interesting as the size of the mainspring and barrel increase in size.

 

yah, the alloy mainsprings of the larger Hamilton pocket watches with the motor barrel are really more like small clocks

[Neverenoughwatches]

Trying out my idea for sandwiching a barrel within another barrel to stop the mainspring from popping out . These little vices are great for holding round parts , pegwood inserts for gripping.

Just wondering that i have enough barrels , as long as dont make to many mistakes enlarging the hole on the lid I think I'll be ok.

A thought occured to me while i was making the barrel hole larger. I've thought about this a lot when working with metal. What precautions do folk here take with their eyes, besides the obvious of glasses visors etc. I've noticed metal filings can become  engrained into the skin of fingers when not wearing gloves. Anyone had any mishaps, I've pulled bits of steel from my eyes with magnets many years ago at work. Magnets only draw on ferromagnetic metal though, what about brass or other ?

Works a treat, the arbor backed out of mainspring and lifted out...no hassle and no crawling around on the floor looking for flung pieces.  The paper traps the small barrel inside the big barrel so it doesn't move around when turning the arbor out.  Could make the hole a little bigger if need be, but if you have nightmares about losing your barrel arbor then this could be your answer. 

[JohnR725]

5 hours ago, rehajm said:

the alloy mainsprings of the larger Hamilton pocket watches with the motor barrel are really more like small clocks

Yes the difference between a pocket watch mainspring and a wristwatch mainspring as far as size goes is quite spectacular. Then if you want a bigger Hamilton go to the Hamilton deck watch mainspring. It's about 3 feet long and has the force of. Normally when I play with a mainspring like that I would have it under a towel so if anything goes flying the towel will contain everything but on one occasion the barrel escaped fluid a 45° angle from where is sitting bounced off the door and went down the hallway fortunately it didn't enter in a rooms it just went down the hallway quite a distance.

Then things get even more interesting if you go to clock mainsprings. Typically they will wear or should have face protection and very heavy gloves. As if a clock mainspring gets away from you things can get very interesting if not life-threatening dependent upon the size of the mainspring.

[linux]

11 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

That defeats the objective of using the arbor vice. Once the mainspring is removed from the barrel, the arbor is easily taken out. Its the leap of the mainspring from the barrel as the last two or so coils are about to be removed. If the arbor is still attached then , thats when you're going to be on your knees searching for it and probably the barrel as well. Best to get the arbor out safe and sound before taking out the mainspring . Unless the idea is to put the barrel assembly minus the lid upside-down over a big hole on a staking block and then push out the arbor. That idea seems to have problems attached to it, lining up the arbor and stake hole and not being able to see to work the hook free. If an idea at all then cover the barrel with the mainspring facing up or put the barrel into a larger barrel with an enlarged hole in its lid.

Yeah, you're right about the last two coils.  I have lauched a few springs doing that so I'm extra careful.  I know that taking the arbor out first looks very easy when I see Mark do it

[Neverenoughwatches]

16 minutes ago, linux said:

Yeah, you're right about the last two coils.  I have lauched a few springs doing that so I'm extra careful.  I know that taking the arbor out first looks very easy when I see Mark do it

Often it is relatively easy, but if you come across an awkward one then try the sandwiching idea that I posted above . It keeps the mainspring fully contained while you work the arbor out, and very simple to set up once you have a bigger barrel set up in a cheap vice. 

[linux]

Here's a little YT video that makes it look too easy.  Why would this not work?

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, linux said:

Here's a little YT video that makes it look too easy.  Why would this not work?

 

I think I've seen that before, quite simple really.... when the inner coil has already been opened up. Maybe we should all do it like this in future lol.

So you can't beat a good experiment when a point needs to be made lol. I tried this on a dozen or so barrel assemblies and to be fair 50% of the arbors did come out surprisingly well. That being said they were not particularly tight fitting to begin with. The remainder either did not want to come out without some force or bent the inner coil when I exercised it. One barrel did decide to explode the mainspring out when i lifted the barrel off of the staking block . Now who wants to help me put this lot back together ....come on hands up people.

The moral of this story is....dont believe everything you see on YouTube

Edited January 1 by Neverenoughwatches