How to handle unconventional attachment of the second hand?

[VWatchie]

(Image from Chron24) Time to service a Maurice Lacroix AIKON 42mm (Calibre ML115 / Base Caliber Sellita SW200-1)

When I attempted to remove the hands using hand levers, I discovered that the angle of the levers wasn't steep enough to detach the second hand. Surprised, I took out my Presto tool but had to apply more force than expected.

It turned out that the second hand was attached unconventionally. As shown in the images, a tube has been placed over the second hand's pivot, likely secured tightly, as the hand itself detached rather than the tube.

I feel uncertain about handling this and wonder if anyone has encountered something similar and how I should proceed with the disassembly and reassembly.

Edited December 30, 2024 by VWatchie

[Neverenoughwatches]

So the tube doesn't fold over the top of the second hand ? From your first photo it looked like a hex nut holding the hand in place.

These look like tabs that fold over the head of the secondhand ?

[AndyGSi]

Looking at the tab on the second hand it would appear to fit over the pinion and then rotate to lock in place.

What's the movement?

[Neverenoughwatches]

2 hours ago, AndyGSi said:

Looking at the tab on the second hand it would appear to fit over the pinion and then rotate to lock in place.

What's the movement?

Saw that and thought it was a fault on the picture as i didn't notice it on the others.

[AndyGSi]

10 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Saw that and thought it was a fault on the picture as i didn't notice it on the others.

I wasn't sure at first until I saw it in this one too.

[Neverenoughwatches]

I dont quite get the locking bit though, the hole is hex shaped....how would it turn to lock ?

Could that tab just have broken off the tube ?

[tomh207]

Looks to me like it is just a shaped end to the tube and the hand hole and likely riveted as normal

 

Tom

[Neverenoughwatches]

I feel i need to dig out 1k of seconds hands to look at lol

[AndyGSi]

19 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I dont quite get the locking bit though, the hole is hex shaped....how would it turn to lock ?

Could that tab just have broken off the tube ?

My thoughts were that the pinion doesn't look round and the gaps look about the same size as the tab.

Again, more info on the movement from the start would have probably made things easier.

[VWatchie]

Thanks for your thoughts guys! 

11 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

Again, more info on the movement from the start would have probably made things easier.

Are you looking for specific information, or did you miss the calibre specification in the first post?

Here it is: Maurice Lacroix cal. ML115 / Base cal. Sellita SW200-1.

I'm unsure how to proceed from here. At some point, I'll need to figure out how to reattach the seconds hand. Perhaps it can simply be pressed back on. I checked whether the hexagonal hole in the hand would now fall down on the tube, but it didn’t. I believe (or at least hope) it might still be possible to press it back into place.

The immediate issue however seems to be removing the tube from the pivot. I hope it isn’t glued or permanently attached to the pivot. If I can’t remove it, I don’t think I’ll be able to separate the fourth wheel from the cannon pinion and the main plate.

Edited December 30, 2024 by VWatchie

[tomh207]

10 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

My thoughts were that the pinion doesn't look round and the gaps look about the same size as the tab.

Again, more info on the movement from the start would have probably made things easier.

I don’t think that is the pivot Andy but the seconds hand tube sitting on the pivot. Common issue when second hands/sub-dial hand tubes are very tight.

@VWatchie I don’t think the caliber is very relevant tbh, more how do you get the second hand tube off without breaking/bending the pivot, maybe a pin vice would do the job.

 

Tom

[Neverenoughwatches]

7 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

Thanks for your thoughts guys! 

Is there some specific information you're looking for or did you miss the calibre specification in the first post?

Here it is: Maurice Lacroix cal. ML115 / Base cal. Sellita SW200-1.

Not sure where to go from here. Eventually, I will have to figure out how to get the seconds hand back. Perhaps it can be pressed back. I checked if the hexagonal hole in the hand would now simply fall on the tube but it doesn't. I think (or rather hope) it might be possible to press it back on.

I'm assuming the hands are 

 

8 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

Thanks for your thoughts guys! 

Is there some specific information you're looking for or did you miss the calibre specification in the first post?

Here it is: Maurice Lacroix cal. ML115 / Base cal. Sellita SW200-1.

Not sure where to go from here. Eventually, I will have to figure out how to get the seconds hand back. Perhaps it can be pressed back. I checked if the hexagonal hole in the hand would now simply fall on the tube but it doesn't. I think (or rather hope) it might be possible to press it back on.

The hand would be specifically for ML the caliber probably has no relevance to it. I've looked at a few but cant see enough to understand how it's fitted.

[VWatchie]

4 minutes ago, tomh207 said:

@VWatchie I don’t think the caliber is very relevant tbh, more how do you get the second hand tube off without breaking/bending the pivot, maybe a pin vice would do the job.

Yes, I agree—this is the most pressing issue right now. I could attempt to use a pin vise or possibly try prying it off with hand levers, resting them on the upper edge of the cannon pinion.

 

[RichardHarris123]

Would a presto tool remove it?

[AndyGSi]

33 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

Are you looking for specific information, or did you miss the calibre specification in the first post?

Sorry but yes I'd missed the details between the photos.

Edit

Now I realise what's going on and that you've pulled the hand from the tube.

45 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

Yes, I agree—this is the most pressing issue right now. I could attempt to use a pin vise or possibly try prying it off with hand levers, resting them on the upper edge of the cannon pinion.

I'd use a plastic disc in place of the dial and try levers.

Edited December 30, 2024 by AndyGSi

[VWatchie]

1 hour ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Would a presto tool remove it?

1 hour ago, AndyGSi said:

I'd use a plastic disc in place of the dial and try levers.

Thanks for your ideas! 

[Neverenoughwatches]

18 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

1 hour ago, AndyGSi said:

I'd use a plastic disc in place of the dial and try levers.

Thanks for your ideas! 

Have you got an old credit card that you can drill a hole into or push a pin through and drop the card over the cannon pin.

Any card , library card supermarket clubcard etc.

Gym card, building merchants card, costa coffee loyalty card, old man's drinking club card, casino member card night clubcard, pole dancing stripclub card, gentlemen's club card , Blue Oyster club card, Club Privė club card etc etc .

[tomh207]

1 hour ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Have you got an old credit card that you can drill a hole into or push a pin through and drop the card over the cannon pin.

Any card , library card supermarket clubcard etc.

Gym card, building merchants card, costa coffee loyalty card, old man's drinking club card, casino member card night clubcard, pole dancing stripclub card, gentlemen's club card , Blue Oyster club card, Club Privė club card etc etc .

Look Rich, we don’t all have a wallet dedicated to dodgy cards like you!

 

Tom

[Neverenoughwatches]

2 minutes ago, tomh207 said:

Look Rich, we don’t all have a wallet dedicated to dodgy cards like you!

 

Tom

Haha i just reeled a few off while I was in there looking for some spare cash

[RichardHarris123]

If you don't hit the chip, then your credit card will still work.

[Knebo]

5 hours ago, tomh207 said:

maybe a pin vice would do the job.

Wouldn't that further compress the tube against the pivot, making it even harder to remove? 

 

3 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Any card , library card supermarket clubcard etc.

Gym card, building merchants card, costa coffee loyalty card, old man's drinking club card, casino member card night clubcard, pole dancing stripclub card, gentlemen's club card , Blue Oyster club card, Club Privė club card etc etc .

Sorry @Neverenoughwatches, I disagree. Nobody should own a gym card. 

But, IF you do, please drill a hole in it an use it for this watchmaking task. That'll be the most useful it'll ever be. 

Edited December 30, 2024 by Knebo

[RichardHarris123]

Just now, Knebo said:

Sorry @Neverenoughwatches, I disagree. Nobody should own a gym card. 

Haha, I always said that "Gym" is the worst swear word.

[tomh207]

1 minute ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Haha, I always said that "Gym" is the worst swear word.

I and a couple of friends once toyed with the idea of opening a bar called “The Gym”

@Knebo I don’t think so as there is a ring on the tube, gripping that should work

 

Tom

[Knebo]

4 minutes ago, tomh207 said:

I and a couple of friends once toyed with the idea of opening a bar called “The Gym”

Brilliant idea!! 

 

4 minutes ago, tomh207 said:

Knebo I don’t think so as there is a ring on the tube, gripping that should work

I'd then expect the ring to deform when gripped and pulled. 

Edited December 30, 2024 by Knebo

[Neverenoughwatches]

23 minutes ago, Knebo said:

Wouldn't that further compress the tube against the pivot, making it even harder to remove? 

 

Sorry @Neverenoughwatches, I disagree. Nobody should own a gym card. 

But, IF you do, please drill a hole in it an use it for this watchmaking task. That'll be the most useful it'll ever be. 

Its ok to own one, just dont use it to go to the gym, let it run out of date. It kinda makes you feel like you're making an effort to stay healthy