D5 or MolyKote DX

[BobG]

I just completed Level2 and lubrication is a big part of it. I believe, correct me here if I am incorrect, that Mark said MolyKote DX can be substituted for Mobius D5. Mobius D5  an oil while MolyKote DX is a grease so I am confused. Do I use MolyKote DX grease wherever Mark uses D5 or just where a grease is called for?

[tomh207]

Just where a grease is required, on metal to metal sliding parts like keyless works. D5 according to Moebius is for metal to metal rotating parts, like brass bushed arbor.

 

this is my opinion not a request to start a lube war

 

Tom

[Neverenoughwatches]

2 hours ago, tomh207 said:

a lube war

I dread to think what you've been watching over the xmas holidays Tom

2 hours ago, BobG said:

I just completed Level2 and lubrication is a big part of it. I believe, correct me here if I am incorrect, that Mark said MolyKote DX can be substituted for Mobius D5. Mobius D5  an oil while MolyKote DX is a grease so I am confused. Do I use MolyKote DX grease wherever Mark uses D5 or just where a grease is called for?

To compliment with Tom's reply, the general guide is...IF IT SLIDES USE GREASE , IF IT REVOLVES USE OIL. And there lays the opportunity to begin open verbal warfare on the complexities of which oil or which grease on which watch part. Or....a light hearted pleasant discussion about adult movies.

[RickTock]

Often I see HP-1300 as a substitute for D5 (both thick oils). And Molykote DX used where grease is called for in keyless works.

[tomh207]

5 minutes ago, RickTock said:

Often I see HP-1300 as a substitute for D5 (both thick oils). And Molykote DX used where grease is called for in keyless works.

I seem to remember a mobius document at some point that HP1300 was for high torque jewelled wheels and D5 for high torque metal bearing wheels. I think that to all practical purposes we can consider them equivalent.

 

Tom

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

On 1/2/2025 at 3:33 PM, BobG said:

I just completed Level2 and lubrication is a big part of it. I believe, correct me here if I am incorrect, that Mark said MolyKote DX can be substituted for Mobius D5. Mobius D5  an oil while MolyKote DX is a grease so I am confused. Do I use MolyKote DX grease wherever Mark uses D5 or just where a grease is called for?

Moly DX was a popular used grease a couple of years ago, Kalle over at Chronoglide even recommended it. Its since being considered somewhat a less of an option as cleaners don't remove it, which you would think is a good think. Apparently it was also suggested that it contaminates cleaning solutions. I think Mark meant if you were using D5 as a sliding lubricant on keyless works etc DX could be used instead, so not in relation to train lubrication. 

7 hours ago, tomh207 said:

I seem to remember a mobius document at some point that HP1300 was for high torque jewelled wheels and D5 for high torque metal bearing wheels. I think that to all practical purposes we can consider them equivalent.

 

Tom

 

I think we can more or less ignore what Mobius suggest, they're only going to change which oil and grease does what in a couple of years time anyway, and then again two years later,and then again......depending on what is the  current best seller ( I'm so cynical ) 

D5 and HP1300 have similar viscosities, both around 12-1300 cst.  D5 being mineral with some longevity additives and the HPs are fully synthetic...and have different price tags...we should start a thread on making our own lubes like some have done with solvents. I started with my own solvent experiments today, ammoniated solutions after reading the last thread on the subject. The one I'm working on is sometimes coming out a bright yellow colour depending on how much sugar I've had in my diet that day. 

[JohnR725]

On 1/2/2025 at 10:28 AM, Neverenoughwatches said:

the general guide is...IF IT SLIDES USE GREASE

Oh dear you're not reading the tech sheets that answer is incorrect. At least according to the Swiss tech sheets where they use oil instead of grease on sliding components like the keyless. Then because the oil will not stay word supposed to be they use epilam to keep it in place.

19 hours ago, RickTock said:

HP-1300 as a substitute for D5

Typically it's thought of as that way except

19 hours ago, tomh207 said:

seem to remember a mobius document at some point that HP1300 was for high torque jewelled wheels and D5 for high torque metal bearing wheels. I t

It's in the bottom of their guide on choice of lubrication's. I'm not going to post the guide if somebody really wants that they can go and downloaded as I would probably object to their choice of lubrication's. Then my interpretation is a slightly different than yours in that it appears to be that HP oils are preferred for ruby bearings and the other is for brass. I really wish they would explain why? My personal suspicion is that HP oils unless you epilam have a habit of running away where as the other products I think stayed put better but that may be only a speculation on my part. Plus I have to go and look up the characteristics of D5 as I think that would also apply with D4. The spec sheet for D5 is quite worthless as what I was looking for I am pretty sure there's a tiny amount of molybdenum disulfide in the five which would embed itself into the brass. In any case it's an amusing choice because when you read the spec sheet for D5 it does mention vegetable oil and its organic. He would think synthetic oil would be better but apparently not. Personally I find it rather amusing as the only place you find this is at the bottom of the lubrication chart and conveniently it's not mentioned anywhere else in the universe. That would include the other Swatch group companies that are recommending the HP oils in places where it would conflict with what were reading below. Maybe this other companies didn't get the memo?

https://www.moebius-lubricants.ch/en

 

 

[Malocchio]

I've used Molykote DX on crystal press and caseback opener sliding parts. Of course any grease would be fine for those but Molykote is what I had.

[Neverenoughwatches]

3 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

they use oil instead of grease on sliding components like the keyless. Then because the oil will not stay word supposed to be they use epilam to keep it in place.

That seems way too faffy, give it a couple of years and that idea will change . Oil and grease supposed use is like fashion, one year its in the next year it's out, 10 years later it's back in again

[JohnR725]

6 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

one year its in the next year it's out, 10 years later it's back in again

Not quite correct. There does seem to be a trend a very very slow trend of going from incredibly light lubricants for the keyless. The definition of incredibly light would be in the late 50s 9010 and yes they were Apple lemming just about everything of the watch otherwise that would spread like. Now they're all the way up to HP 1300 their increasing in viscosity still using the epilam. So their following a trend of becoming heavier lubricants for the keyless at least. At the rate they're going they should reach the proper lubricants for a keyless which I would suggest would be grease and probably another hundred or 1000 years at the rate they're going.

The other amusement is the quantity of lubricants. When I was in school it was explained basically if the instructor could not see that you lubricated you were fine. But in any of the newer documents your to fill up the oil sank as long as you can still see the pivot your okay so something today that would be acceptable would end up in the sawdust Box just a few years ago.

I have a suspicion that in the past the watch companies with manufacture their watches and send them out but for the most part they never service their own watches. If anything they would just blame the idiots in the field that would be all of us for the problems but now that they are servicing their watches I would like to think that there noticing the consequences of poor lubrication choices. On the other hand companies are going to much longer service intervals and they just replace anything they don't like so maybe they're not learning at all.

[RichardHarris123]

I think we have discussed it before, but it's still strange that the company who made the movement may not be the best one for servicing. 

[JohnR725]

2 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

I think we have discussed it before, but it's still strange that the company who made the movement may not be the best one for servicing. 

I'm not sure that we discussed up before.  I do though find the choice of lubrication's over time a bit strange plus I have to wonder if the watch companies lubricating watches ever question what exactly are doing or why they're even doing it other than it's how we did it in the past.