Christopher Ward SH21 Winding Rotor Bearing replacement

[Freebase]

Excellent timekeeper, really like it, gets a hard life.

Been back to CW 3 times now, just aint doing it no more.

They had it longer than me in 2023

So...Today I took the back off, and hey presto.

The winding rotor bearing is shot.

Wobbles like a kids playground roundabout.

So how to i upgrade this.

Do not want to send back to CW.

It will likely fail again.

It is a 5 ball bearing affair. Pretty shocking anyway to be honest.

Any one any experience with these movements.

I know it is an "In House" movement.

But it is my hope that they didnt design every bearing from scratch.

Ideally a jewel bearing or even a bush.

The "5 ball" bearing that is installed originally is not up to the job.

Any experience greatly appreciated.

[tomh207]

CW modifies Sellita movements generally, I would expect that something that isn’t an additional complication on the timekeeping side would likely not be changed. So it would be worth investigating whether the Sellita rotor shaft/bearings will fit.

 

Tom

[AndyGSi]

They're made by Synergies Horlogères so unfortunately I don't think you've got a lot of options.

[Freebase]

Hi

Thanks for the replies.

Already contacted CW, asking whether they will sell bearing,rotor, or have an upograde.

Awaiting reply.

Looked into Sellita and SH, but nothing matches, as yet.

Photos would help i know.

But i took it apart on a whim, and only thought after wards...

It was only 1 screw to remove the rotor...I guess this is how it always starts.

Before you know it ill be casting my own parts...

Think ill order a couple of generic parts.

Cousins have a few in stock, same for Ali Express.

At present, its a 5 day manual.

Reckon ill find something eventually.

I think a jewel bearing would be better. the 5 ball thing is quite flimsy

Just cheap i guess. rest of movement looks high quality.

Rotor looks tacked on as an afterthought.

I think this has been the issue with this movement in this watch all along.Every now and then it goes 'Clunk' and stops.

This time i caught it before it blew apart completely

[AndyGSi]

Just having another look at this and are you sure it's an SH21 as there's nothing showing for an Automatic version?

Edit

Just found that as you expected it's a later add-on and causing nothing but problems.

I'd just remove it and stick with the hand wind.

Edited January 9 by AndyGSi

[Freebase]

So from my investigations...for info only.
Please feel free to update/correct me if ive got the wrong end of the stick...

In order of appearance/timeline

Valjoux 7750, 5 ball-bearing, pressed in to rotor. No retaining shim/collar

ETA 7750, 5 ball-bearing, bearing held in with shim/collar.

Perhaps 7 ball on some i have seen available. But might just be a "photo assignment to part" error

SW500, 7-ball bearing, held in with shim/collar. Shallower rotor overhang

All have 42 teeth on gear wheel side of bearing. From photos. I have counted them...

SH21 Rotor has 42 teeth. I counted those as well.

I have ordered an SW500 bearing from Cousins UK + correct tool.

Presently, it is a best guess as to whether it will fit directly.

But it allows me to retain the original rotor (with specific outer clearance for SH21 movement.

Will update on receipt.

[AndyGSi]

Nice idea and be interested to see if somehow they are the same diameter.

[Freebase]

Only fair to upload some photos.

Only thing i am unsure of at present is the spacer/washer shown on the open case photo.

I did not remove this myself.

It must have fallen off the bottom of the rotor on removal.

Hands up. I did not notice this.

Until i was opening the case a few moments ago to take a photo...

That was lucky...

Yes, it is a bit of a stab in the dark.

But it was onloy the other day, afetr i had thiswatch in a box for 3 months, i thought .

I am going to have a go at fixing this myself.

It cant be any worse that the CW Service/Return experience.

If it really is as simple as an uprated bearing, it is embarrassing.

It took 10 weeks one time.

And zero feedback.

[AndyGSi]

19 hours ago, Freebase said:

It is a 5 ball bearing affair. Pretty shocking anyway to be honest.

Just found this photo of an Auto SH21 and it appears to have 7 balls?

[Freebase]

I think that is the SW500 bearing, they have used in your photo.

Mine being, the "Older" 5-ball version.

Only my thoughts.

But that photo makes me think i may be on the right track.

It is possible CW have uprated the bearing they now use.

And so they should have.

I have had 3 of the "Older" types replaced by CW, between 2022 and now.

It has not run for 12months straight without throwing this bearing out.

Always the same fault. Maybe the rotor (in my watch) is too heavy also.

But that is another issue.

That rotor in your photo also looks skeletonized.

Reducing weight...

Cousins have shipped the SW500 rotor.

So early next wk i may know more

[watchweasol]

Hi for your information. Eterna also used bearings on the rotot

[Freebase]

Hi,

yes i saw that.

I think they invented the bearing winding rotor in 1946.

I have been unable to find anything other than rotor ball bearings, so i am having to go that way.

Not at this point a fan, but may be the 7-ball (if it fits) will be an upgrade.

IOther options were to fit a press in Valjoux 7750 Rotor replacement.

But i dont want to try that yet.

It may be that the SW500 7-ball is a drop in replacement.

And it may not.

But what i am trying to get away from is CW having my watch more than me.

And its inherent unreliability.

Failed on my wrist 3 times now.

Just been lucky it hasnt kamikazed the whole movement when its blown apart.

Very unpleasant sound it has made a few times.

A glass bavk would have been useful at that point...

[Freebase]

Update.

Success.

SW500 bearing fitted to original CW C60 SH21 Automatic rotor.

Using original bearing retaining/lock shim.

(Using bearing shim lock tool (From Cousins UK / Modified (Filed down)  to suit this bearing + Shim).

All went well.

Small spacer/washer mentioned in earlier photo goes on after the rotor, under the rotor retaining screw. It is recessed for screw head on one side only.

Rotor spins perfectly, without vertical deflection in any position.

And the 42 tooth gear which is the underside of the bearing meshes perfectly with the winding gear of the movement.

I think I just fixed my own watch myself for the first time.

Dont know why i didnt think of it earlier.
Can´t do everything right...

But better that a 10-12 Wk wait, each service return.

Twice in one year (2023), all under warranty, but still vexing.

Now as far a rotor bearings go, i am self sufficient.

And we now all know that a Sellita SW500 Rotor bearing (7-Ball) is a valid fitment, and as far as i am concerned, a valid upgrade, to the original (possibly older, and now no longer fitted by CW), 5-Ball item.

Cool.