New balance complete for BFG 582

[AndrewR]

I have a couple of Cambio Jump Hours. One works fine. The other didn't but a new click and it does. Kinda.

Issue is the hairspring is a bit wibbly wobbly so I was looking for a replacement.

Cousins sell them at a keen price but say they have a jewelled roller. Clearly the existing one does not.

Am I correct in assuming the jewelled version will not work in my movement, or would the jewel extend from the roller table like the steel one does?

ps of course I'll attempt a manipulation first, but it'll be my first...

[AndrewR]

When I compare both the working and trying movements side by side, I noticed that the balance wheel on the trier is smaller than the one on the runner. This could either be due to changes in design, or someone slipped a "nearly" balance replacement.

 

My question for you great bunch is does anyone know whether there are any generic replacement for the 582 such as from Renata? Perhaps an 866 balance?

Plus the question regarding the jewelled version above...

[AndyGSi]

Are you aware there are 2 frequency variants for this movement 18000 & 21600 which probably explains the difference in balance sizes.

The question then becomes which is correct as other parts also vary depending on the frequency.

[Neverenoughwatches]

Yours does not have an impulse pin or roller table/ safety roller. The staff has a finger directy fitted to it.

One balance may have an impulse pin and roller the other with a staff finger.

Edited January 17 by Neverenoughwatches

[mbwatch]

Oh hey - I recognize this from reddit. @AndrewR - let me just say you are going to get much much much MUCH better help here than you ever will get over there (unless it happens to be someone from here lurking over there to answer you).

Edited January 17 by mbwatch
spell

[Neverenoughwatches]

Avec doigt -- with finger.

[GPrideaux]

On 1/15/2025 at 5:14 AM, AndrewR said:

of course I'll attempt a manipulation first, but it'll be my first...

I'm interested to hear how you get on. Yes, the spring is a bit mangled, but it should be fixable. Read up on hairspring manipulation before you start rather than after you make a mess (like I did with my first one).

[rehajm]

...there are balances available for this movement. EBay or equivalent may be a good option as you can inquire to see the if the roller matches your original. The challenge with a full replacement is it will likely require some manipulation of the terminal curve as well...but nice to know you have alternatives if the work with yours goes sideways..

...there's also spare movements with good looking balances as another option...perhaps no manipulation would be necessary...

[AndyGSi]

18 minutes ago, rehajm said:

...there are balances available for this movement.

Can you tell which is the correct balance for @AndrewR movements based on these photos?

[AndrewR]

3 hours ago, rehajm said:

...there are balances available for this movement. EBay or equivalent may be a good option as you can inquire to see the if the roller matches your original. The challenge with a full replacement is it will likely require some manipulation of the terminal curve as well...but nice to know you have alternatives if the work with yours goes sideways..

...there's also spare movements with good looking balances as another option...perhaps no manipulation would be necessary...

Someone was asking similar questions a few years ago on this forum. Issue if the 582 parts are much more expensive than 866 in general, or other "cheap" movements. So yes, there are direct options but...

3 hours ago, AndyGSi said:

Can you tell which is the correct balance for @AndrewR movements based on these photos?

Given the big one is running well I'd say that one, but who knows. BFG might have changed the design. It sometimes happens I believe.

So new question...

I figure let's go through a service first. Get this thing cleaned up, and then that at least rules some of those issues out.

So I've disassembled most of the movement side but can't remove the keyless bridge. After searching I found a photo suggesting it's screwed from the dial side.

On the dial side I can't figure out how to remove the minute wheel. When I pull it up it feels like it's attached so I don't want to blindly force it. I watched a video of a Lucerne jump hour, and although similar it isn't a BFG582. After removing the keyless bridge on that one (screwed from teh movement side) and removing the intermediate wheel etc, the minute wheel pulled straight off. It's not in English (possibly mandarin) so I couldn't follow along anyway.

Has anyone go suggestions/knowledge of wha the next step is, and how to (safely) remove the minute wheel?

[nevenbekriev]

I am not familiar with this movements, but the balance shown is Roskopf type. The impulse finger is separate part from the staff, it is like washer that if tight fit on the staff. The safety roller is part of the staff it is machined with. If there are balances for this movements with impulse jewel, for sure it will not fit here, at least without replacing the pallet fork with one that is designed to work with this balance.

Now about the hairspring. The first thing is to remove the balance with the spring from the bridge. You have to open the regulator and then to remove the stud from the stud holder. Not heeded to remove the little tapered pin that fixes the spring in the stud. The stud will come out by twisting and pulling it. Then clean the spring to ensure it is not sticky and show picture from above. 

[AndyGSi]

36 minutes ago, AndrewR said:

Given the big one is running well I'd say that one, but who knows. BFG might have changed the design. It sometimes happens I believe.

The big balance is for 18000 movements while the small is the 21600 but without knowing what other parts are fitted you can't be sure. 

56 minutes ago, AndrewR said:

On the dial side I can't figure out how to remove the minute wheel.

It's press fitted onto the hub as a normal hand would be so you need to carefully lever it using the 2 slots.

[AndrewR]

3 hours ago, AndyGSi said:

It's press fitted onto the hub as a normal hand would be so you need to carefully lever it using the 2 slots.

Good Lord that was traumatic. Thanks.

[AndrewR]

So I stripped it, cleaned it, and put it back together.

I did some gentle stroking of the hairspring, and I got it running. Hooray. Still needs more work to get it running sweet.

Then when I was putting together the dial side, the jumper spring launched into orbit. An hour of searching and I've given up on it and hitting suppliers....

One door opens, another one slams in your face!

[AndyGSi]

1 hour ago, AndrewR said:

So I stripped it, cleaned it, and put it back together.

I did some gentle stroking of the hairspring, and I got it running. Hooray. Still needs more work to get it running sweet.

Then when I was putting together the dial side, the jumper spring launched into orbit. An hour of searching and I've given up on it and hitting suppliers....

One door opens, another one slams in your face!

That's all part of the learning curve.

What spring was it? Yoke of either of the Date ones?

[AndrewR]

10 hours ago, AndyGSi said:

That's all part of the learning curve.

What spring was it? Yoke of either of the Date ones?

It's an hour jumper spring.

The question is would the date jumper be the same spring? It does the same function.
Or would a similar looking spring do the same job. It's just a half paperclip looking thing.

[AndyGSi]

Completely different looking spring.

Edit

That's presuming the Date Jumper Spring is what's being used for the Hour Wheel.

Edited January 20 by AndyGSi