Making a case

[graemeW]

Has anyone made a case?

I have a 1930s roamer with what I believe to be a duralumin case. It had fixed bars. The bars broke off and it's had 2 flat pieced pinned across the lugs to take the strap. This doesn't bother me, but the case was plated and it's coming off. It also wasn't a well made case in the first place.

I am set up for nickel plating, but I think plating onto aluminium alloys is problematic. I was hoping the case was brass, then I could have repaired it and replated it. I used to be a hobbyist silversmith so the case repair on brass would be no problem. Duralumin though, no chance.

I do however also have lathes. So im wondering about just making a completely new case from brass and then plating it. Anyone done this before?

I'm trying to decide the best option of either just turning all the internal and bezel/case back aspects and then cutting the external by hand, leaving the lugs, or hard soldering the lugs on after. Cutting the outside by hand and would be somewhat preferable but a lot more work.

Making a case without lugs on the lathe should be pretty straight forward. Making the lugs separately will also be easier. Just need to make sure I get then soldered on exactly right or it will look terrible. I guess I could make a jig though.

The case is completely round with square section lugs sticking out, so no blending the lugs into the case etc.

This watch is going to be an awful lot of work (movement is bad too, seconds hand missing) for something that's not fantastic quality and not worth much at all. But I'm in love with the dial, so I need to make it work somehow.

[tomh207]

I think this would be a good place to start, definitely an expert showing his skills 

 

I have sometimes wondered if there are any drawings around for the old standard sized pocket watch cases. Plenty of orphan movements out there that would be nice to resurrect into a useable timepiece, apparently pocket watches are coming back into vogue.

 

Tom

[graemeW]

1 hour ago, tomh207 said:

I think this would be a good place to start, definitely an expert showing his skills 

 

I have sometimes wondered if there are any drawings around for the old standard sized pocket watch cases. Plenty of orphan movements out there that would be nice to resurrect into a useable timepiece, apparently pocket watches are coming back into vogue.

 

Tom

Interesting.

Not far off what I was thinking except I won't be remortgaging the house for large chunks of 18ct gold rod!! I'd make it from either bar stock, if I add the lugs after, or flat plate if I make the lugs integral.

Dislike his design. Not super keen on how he made it either to be honest. But he did it the way he wanted I guess.

I skimmed through all 7 parts of the video as it's just making rings (not in the way I would) soldering them up, and turning them. But, the interesting part that i will take on board is he set the lugs into the case for extra strength. Ill use that idea.

He didn't really show how he held the bezel and case back on, he mentioned screws though. I will do it how it's normally done so they press/click on as normal. I also need to make mine load from the front and mine will be very slim.

That's a HUGE chunk of 18ct he had made there!!!

Has made me think though, I could use silver rather than nickel plating brass. Bit more future upkeep though, but avoids the issue of dimensional changes when plating. That could play havoc with the press on bezel and back. (I'd be using the original bezel and case back)

Looks simple enough though.

Edited January 26 by graemeW

[tomh207]

Glad it gave you something towards your endeavours, also check YouTube for Stefan Pahlow, I think he did some case making videos too.

i hope you manage to find the time to do it Graeme, it would be great to see.

 

Tom

[graemeW]

5 minutes ago, tomh207 said:

Glad it gave you something towards your endeavours, also check YouTube for Stefan Pahlow, I think he did some case making videos too.

i hope you manage to find the time to do it Graeme, it would be great to see.

 

Tom

I'll find the time.

I have a buren case I need to strip and replate too.

I do however need to find the time to complete the turntable and tonearm I was making and finish the current motorcycle. That's at a stage where all the fabrication is done, just needs all the polishing, plating and paintwork done.

But the watch case will be the simplest and quickest of the main projects so will probably get done first.

12 minutes ago, tomh207 said:

Glad it gave you something towards your endeavours, also check YouTube for Stefan Pahlow, I think he did some case making videos too.

i hope you manage to find the time to do it Graeme, it would be great to see.

 

Tom

Had a quick flick at stefans videos. These folk like making stuff chunky don't they! Stefan however is far more skilled than the first guy. His techniques and processes are more technical, and in my opinion, more correct. His designs are better and they function as you would expect too. 

[praezis]

1 hour ago, graemeW said:

But, the interesting part that i will take on board is he set the lugs into the case for extra strength. Ill use that idea.

Cases in the 40s were made that way, round body with soldered lugs, both horns and the bar as one piece). Hard soldered they are strong enough without embedding in the case. I get them often bent by drop or other accident. I have to re-bend and adjust them, no issue,  never tore one off.

Plating: you can take that in account when making the parts. Nickel plating will be min. 10 u.

Frank

[tomh207]

52 minutes ago, graemeW said:

 

Had a quick flick at stefans videos. These folk like making stuff chunky don't they! Stefan however is far more skilled than the first guy. His techniques and processes are more technical, and in my opinion, more correct. His designs are better and they function as you would expect too. 

They do seem to have a tendency towards strapping a manhole cover to your wrist, Dufour does as well. Then again they get £100k - £1million+ for one of their watches, so what do we know.

another thought I had if you are handy with CAD/3D modelling was to draw up your case and see how much it would cost getting it milled somewhere like PCBWay.

 

Tom

[graemeW]

26 minutes ago, praezis said:

Cases in the 40s were made that way, round body with soldered lugs, both horns and the bar as one piece). Hard soldered they are strong enough without embedding in the case. I get them often bent by drop or other accident. I have to re-bend and adjust them, no issue,  never tore one off.

Plating: you can take that in account when making the parts. Nickel plating will be min. 10 u.

Frank

That's good to know. Ill see whatbim feel is easier. Setting them in might be easier to get them in the right place and straight.

19 minutes ago, tomh207 said:

They do seem to have a tendency towards strapping a manhole cover to your wrist, Dufour does as well. Then again they get £100k - £1million+ for one of their watches, so what do we know.

another thought I had if you are handy with CAD/3D modelling was to draw up your case and see how much it would cost getting it milled somewhere like PCBWay.

 

Tom

I hate cad. I sort of just about got my bead around 2d cad, but 3d I haven't tried. 

To be honest, I could make it in the lathe in an afternoon so not worth messing.

If I really wanted to, I could use a friend's mill to shape the outside of the case, but I already have the skills to turn one up and solder on the lugs so might as well stick with what I know.

This may actually now come to the front of the queue as the bulb has just broken in my microscope so movement work will be on hold.

Not sure If I already have any brass though. I deffinately don't already have enough silver.

I might have some stainless though. Seems a shame to nickel plate stainless, but if I brazed the lugs, I'd have to.

I'll have a dig in the workshop and see what I can find.

[CYCLOPS]

you might have to copper plate first on that aluminum case before nickel if you go that route.....

[graemeW]

3 minutes ago, CYCLOPS said:

you might have to copper plate first on that aluminum case before nickel if you go that route.....

There are a couple of different pre treatments depending on the alloy.

I don't know it it's just some kind of base metal, mazak or similar, or of its aluminium, or duralumin. I am set up to copper plate too, but I believe the wrong type.

I could overcome the plating of the original case, but I can't repair the lugs. It's also not very well made.

If it had been brass like I hoped, it would have been great. But it's not.

It does have a nice dated stainless back though and a gold (filled I'd assume) bezel. The crown looks coppery. I like the mix of metals on the case. I don't know Its it's made from bits or if it was always that way. The case and bezel fit absolutely perfectly so if it's a bitsa, it's from exactly the same model cases.

Edited January 26 by graemeW

[CYCLOPS]

interesting stuff......seems to be aluminum and copper

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.britannica.com/technology/duralumin&ved=2ahUKEwiE5aWF8pOLAxWrSjABHVNSNSgQFnoECBQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0vPIq9XW_EmVteM1Twfb_i

[graemeW]

3 minutes ago, CYCLOPS said:

interesting stuff......seems to be aluminum and copper

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.britannica.com/technology/duralumin&ved=2ahUKEwiE5aWF8pOLAxWrSjABHVNSNSgQFnoECBQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0vPIq9XW_EmVteM1Twfb_i

Yep, and used a lot on 1930s omegas. They fail around the spring bar holes and then the lugs get cut shorter. A friend was telling me it's a 'thing' to be careful of in the vintage omega world.

Took some photos. On no particular order they show where the fixed lugs were, the replacement plates, the pins holding them to the lugs, the mix of metals, the loss of plating, how rough the case is, the bezel fit, the yellowed crystal that I really like, and although it's super hard to photo, you can feel the crystal peaks in the middle like it's cone shaped.

Unfortunately it's missing a seconds hand, the screw hole in the arbor is chewed out, screw is missing, click spring is missing and the movement in general is just really manky.

But I really like this watch. Ill leave the dial as is, 're do the lume, sort the case (which I think the easiest way is to make one, unless an exact match donor comes up made in brass or stainless). It may end up needing a donor movement.

I pretty much just bought a dial.

 

Thought I'd check, would cost £70 in silver to make it, or about £10-£15 in brass depending on what shape I want to start with.

£4916 to make it from 18ct gold. That's for a piece 4.5mm square and 200mm long.

The first video he used 1/4", so about 6mm and 330mm long.

That's £14320. And he treats it like it's a bit of brass

[SwissSeiko]

On 1/26/2025 at 11:24 AM, graemeW said:

That's £14320. And he treats it like it's a bit of brass

He's the only guy that got to study under George Daniels, so he has the pedigree. I don't think I've ever seen one of his watches for sale, as the people that buy them, don't need to sell them. His earlier work was better I think, when he was making square cases. These are statement pieces, made to stand out and show the craftsmanship. I agree, the round cases aren't my favorite, but I'm not a flashy guy.

[graemeW]

Pulled this watch apart today. I decided to get rid if the lume on the last 2 watches I have with radium so the house and workshop is radium free again. Gave me change to inspect the movement for this roamer. Apart from the damage I knew to the arbor, the missing ratchet wheel screw and the missing click spring, it all looked good. Filthy, but good. All pivots are good, all jewels are good, all teeth are good, hairspring is good, it should run just fine. So I ordered the parts it needs.

Now it's apart i could get a look at the case, it's heavier than I expected, but the mark is silver and it's soft. Must definitely be some kind of aluminium alloy. It's also quite a simple shape really.

This project is most definitely on.

I best find a bit of brass from somewhere.