Roamer mst 352 barrel and arbor

[graemeW]

I have a mst 352 and the screw hole in the arbor for the ratchet wheel is shot.

No problem, cousins list part number mst357180 as fitting the 352 so I ordered it. And a screw.

The barrel is completely different and can't even work the same was as any other barrel I've seen. What's going on? Who is wrong here?

Sorry, terrible photos. But firstly, the square section on the arbor for the ratchet wheel is on the other side than on mine. Secondly, it doesn't have a screw hole in the arbor to fix the ratchet wheel. How would this even be used?

These images from eBay show a mst 359 barrel, which looks an awful lot like what cousins have sent me. They don't list it as 359 though

 

This image from a shop shows a 357 arbor

Which looks exactly like what i need and what cousins listed this as.

This was my first cousins order and I hear they can be funny about returns etc, which is why I wanted to check here first. Bit this is the wrong part right?

The barrel and lid look right, and I can use those as mine are ropey. Bit I really need the arbor!

Edited January 30 by graemeW

[AndyGSi]

This is one of the few occasions where I can say Cousins are wrong but this is where it pays to double check what's showing as compatible.

As you say the barrel is correct but the arbor is wrong

Edit

This is a 352 arbor not 357 as listed.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 30 by AndyGSi

[graemeW]

20 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

This is one of the few occasions where I can say Cousins are wrong but this is where it pays to double check what's showing as compatible.

As you say the barrel is correct but the arbor is wrong

 

 

 

The pictures you link suggest that the 357 arbor is different to the 352 arbor. The pic of the 357 one looks similar to what cousins have sent me.

But, everywhere has the same list of what movements share arbors. And everywhere says 357 and 352 have the same barrel and arbor so I figured it was good. 

Also, interestingly, cousins list for the same movement a ratchet wheel and screw. I bought the screw because I need that too. But the arbor doesn't take a screw. What does your list for 357 say?

I've sent cousins a message, I'll see what they say.

I can find an arbor for a 400 or 401, but can I trust the lists are correct and it's the same as 352?

 

Edit...

So it is a 357 barrel and arbor, they are just wrong in listing it for other movements. It was listed under 364 parts, which I knew would fit. 

They also list this, but I guess this won't fit either

Edited January 30 by graemeW

[AndyGSi]

9 minutes ago, graemeW said:

And everywhere says 357 and 352 have the same barrel and arbor so I figured it was good.

So Cousins have sent you the correct 357 part which doesn't have a screw but isn't compatible with the 352.

Not everywhere shows the same barrel and arbor

[graemeW]

1 minute ago, AndyGSi said:

So Cousins have sent you the correct 357 part which doesn't have a screw but isn't compatible with the 352.

Not everywhere shows the same barrel and arbor

Your right, just found those.

Does the barrel lid interchange too?

My old one is flat both sides, but it's also very worn so no way of knowing if it had the lip around the center hole like this 357 one does.

I think I may as well order the 400 arbor. I will probably keep the part from cousins if I can use the barrel and lid.

[AndyGSi]

5 minutes ago, graemeW said:

Your right, just found those.

Does the barrel lid interchange too?

My old one is flat both sides, but it's also very worn so no way of knowing if it had the lip around the center hole like this 357 one does.

I think I may as well order the 400 arbor. I will probably keep the part from cousins if I can use the barrel and lid.

Lid & Barrel are the same complete on the 352 & 357.

Where are you getting the 400 arbor from?

[graemeW]

1 minute ago, AndyGSi said:

Lid & Barrel are the same complete on the 352 & 357.

Where are you getting the 400 arbor from?

EBay listing, second hand, from a jewelers that presumably strips movements.

It's the only one I can find!

[caseback]

The listing says it's identical to the 371 part?

If it helps  I have one here and we could compare dimensions?

[graemeW]

1 minute ago, caseback said:

The listing says it's identical to the 371 part?

If it helps  I have one here and we could compare dimensions?

The eBay listing for the arbor I'm going to buy? Just says it's from a 400. Seems the 400 has the same arbor as the 352.

 

Is your barrel from a 371? That's listed as the same too and is exactly the same as my 352.

I've ordered a spring too, gr4134. All the sites listed that as suitable, hope it is!

[caseback]

1 minute ago, graemeW said:

The eBay listing for the arbor I'm going to buy? Just says it's from a 400. Seems the 400 has the same arbor as the 352.

 

No I meant the cousins listing in your original post. That's why I replied. I remembered I have a mst 371 in bits. So that is what my photo's show. It does seem identical and should be easy to source. There are loads of those around.

[graemeW]

@caseback

I get you.

I've searched everywhere foe each separate calibre, and part number, everything.

I could buy a spares movement,  it there are no spares 352 about. I could buy a spares 371 or 400, but I don't know how much will interchange it looks very different, but might just be the bridge design. I don't need anything else anyway.

I'll order the used arbor and hope it's ok. It seems like my only choice.

[caseback]

If you have the tools to measure the parts you have, we could compare dimensions. I just checked ebay: loads of 371 parts and parts watches available there.

Edited January 30 by caseback

[graemeW]

4 minutes ago, caseback said:

If you have the tools to measure the parts you have, we could compare dimensions. I just checked ebay: loads of 371 parts and parts watches available there.

It's ok, thanks anyway. Searching the internet tells me the 400 is the same basic movement with different bridges.

[nevenbekriev]

3 hours ago, graemeW said:

But firstly, the square section on the arbor for the ratchet wheel is on the other side than on mine. Secondly, it doesn't have a screw hole in the arbor to fix the ratchet wheel. How would this even be used?

This is for caliber with rocker bar winding/setting mechanism.

You have a broken screw in the arbor hole? Just need to remove it. If the screw was not wrong and screwed by force, it will get out easy as it is not tightened any more since the head is off. Just make thin cut through the square part to where the bearing pivot is and use small screw driver

[graemeW]

31 minutes ago, nevenbekriev said:

This is for caliber with rocker bar winding/setting mechanism.

You have a broken screw in the arbor hole? Just need to remove it. If the screw was not wrong and screwed by force, it will get out easy as it is not tightened any more since the head is off. Just make thin cut through the square part to where the bearing pivot is and use small screw driver

No, the screw is missing. The hole is chewed out to such an extent that the sides have split. It's a chewed up rusty mess.

41 minutes ago, caseback said:

If you have the tools to measure the parts you have, we could compare dimensions. I just checked ebay: loads of 371 parts and parts watches available there.

I'm being dense

Just realised the other option cousins list is the 371 barrel and arbor.

I'll measure mine. I know Its for 70 teeth (edit, so does yours), but I'll measure diameter and overall thickness.

Thanks.

Mins is 9.9mm across the outside of the barrel walls and 2mm thick.

The same spring is listed for the 371, so id assume the barrel is the same?

 

Overall length of arbor says 3.33, but the square end of a mess.

Bottom pivot is 0.75

Square end pivot is maybe 1.63

And square maybe 1.55

The 371 barrel is listed as the same, but not the arbor. 

Edited January 30 by graemeW

[AndyGSi]

21 minutes ago, graemeW said:

Just realised the other option cousins list is the 371 barrel and arbor.

The Cousins 371 barrel and arbor takes you back to square one.

22 minutes ago, graemeW said:

The same spring is listed for the 371, so id assume the barrel is the same?

Yes if you look at the barrel compatibility I posted above.

54 minutes ago, graemeW said:

I've ordered a spring too, gr4134. All the sites listed that as suitable, hope it is!

Boley & Ranfft show the mainspring as 1.50 x 9.0 x 0.11 x 260mm so the GR4134 is slightly less power but longer (not a bad thing) although the GR4147 is a lot cheaper.

[caseback]

9,97 outside barrel

2,03 overall thickness

0,49 thickness wheel

11,1 wheel diameter measured with guessometer (calipers, feintaster goes to 10mm..)

[graemeW]

10 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

The Cousins 371 barrel and arbor takes you back to square one.

Yes if you look at the barrel compatibility I posted above.

Boley & Ranfft show the mainspring as 1.50 x 9.0 x 0.11 x 260mm so the GR4134 is slightly less power but longer (not a bad thing) although the GR4147 is a lot cheaper.

But the 371 barrel/arbor has a different part number from cousins. It puzzled me why they listed 2, with different prices, but with the same listed comparability. Emmywatch dont list rhe arbor as the same though

 

9 minutes ago, caseback said:

9,97 outside barrel

2,03 overall thickness

0,49 thickness wheel

11,1 wheel diameter measured with guessometer (calipers, feintaster goes to 10mm..)

What does the arbor say?

@AndyGSi 

The other spring option i was worried about the smaller barrel measurement.

Edited January 30 by graemeW

[AndyGSi]

16 minutes ago, graemeW said:

But the 371 barrel/arbor has a different part number from cousins. It puzzled me why they listed 2, with different prices, but with the same listed comparability. Emmywatch dont list rhe arbor as the same though

Not sure what you mean it shows the MST357180 for the 371 which is as you ordered?

17 minutes ago, graemeW said:

The other spring option i was worried about the smaller barrel measurement.

The size quoted is just showing what size barrel it will fit direct from the ring without having to use a winder.

[caseback]

0,78 bottom diam

3,33 overall length

1,14 square

1,58 diam just below the square bit

 

 

[graemeW]

18 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

Not sure what you mean it shows the MST357180 for the 371 which is as you ordered?

The size quoted is just showing what size barrel it will fit direct from the ring without having to use a winder.

The other ones part number is 371180

 

Ah, I see. Still learning! I thought that was the size barrel it was ment for.

17 minutes ago, caseback said:

0,78 bottom diam

3,33 overall length

1,14 square

1,58 diam just below the square bit

 

 

Thanks. So just the top of the arbor is different. The part I struggle to measure because it's so damaged.

Maybe I'll stick with the barrel unknown fits and order the 400 arbor which should also fit.

Cousins list yet another part number for the 371 parts

This is confusing the hell out of me!

It probably doesn't matter anyway if the 371 arbor isn't going to work

Edited January 30 by graemeW

[AndyGSi]

38 minutes ago, graemeW said:

The other ones part number is 371180

The 371180 is just the barrel without the arbor and a classis case with Cousins if it were the right part then you'd go for that even if you didn't need the arbor. 

[graemeW]

14 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

The 371180 is just the barrel without the arbor and a classis case with Cousins if it were the right part then you'd go for that even if you didn't need the arbor. 

Oh well, at least I have a new barrel. Mine must be knackered as it should be the same, and it doesn't have the inner lip.

I'll order the 400 arbor.

Hopefully the rest of its ok, I checked reasonably thoroughly.

If after buying parts, I end up having to buy a donor too, I'll be deeply unhappy

[graemeW]

I've read a little bad news about cousins, but they were great about it and just refunded the part.

I wonder if they will change their website too