1917 13 ligne zenith

[graemeW]

Got this in a box of bits. I found a page that can date it from the serial, says it's 1917. Makes sense as it has a black trench watch dial.

I have the ratchet wheel, but the motion works are missing. I don't understand how the keyless works worked, doesn't seem to be anywhere to put them. The setting lever and spring (I'm assuming it must have had them!) Are missing.

Can anyone identify the calibre? Or provide any photos so I can see how it should be?

Would be nice to get this built back into a watch.

A trench watch with the same movement and a solid gold case sold on eBay this week. I assume this might have had similar and the case got scrapped. Would be easy enough to find a silver case though. I have a nickel one, but that feels a bit lowly for this movement.

[nevenbekriev]

The keyless works are little bit different and complicated here. This is negative stem system, all Zeniths from the period are. You need to remove the barrel bridge and see what is there. For sure You are missing 3 wheels - 2 parasite and the minute one. The cannon pinion and hour wheel also are not seen

[graemeW]

1 minute ago, nevenbekriev said:

The keyless works are little bit different and complicated here. This is negative stem system, all Zeniths from the period are. You need to remove the barrel bridge and see what is there. For sure You are missing 3 wheels - 2 parasite and the minute one. The cannon pinion and hour wheel also are not seen

I did wonder as there is nowhere to mount the lever. I'll remove the bridge and see.

Yes, cannon pinion and 3 wheels missing. That and the stem. 

[nevenbekriev]

The calibre is 13 NVSI. The stem that you are missing is part of the case and looks like this

[RichardHarris123]

I think it's this movement only, with most of the motion works missing.  Kept for parts only? 

[graemeW]

Well that's super annoying.

It's set up a bit like the borgel cased watches (I have one of those too) bit without the push pin for setting the hands.

 

13 nvsi, thanks, I'll start looking for parts.

Just now, RichardHarris123 said:

I think it's this movement only, with most of the motion works missing.  Kept for parts only? 

Very possibly yes. Unless I find a really rough one.

If it needs a specific case though, that's a problem.

I can still make this one run though, just will have to wind it from the ratchet wheel and can't make it turn hands.

I'll pop the barrel bridge off shortly and see what's going on because the clutch parts are just floating around In there. Not sure if that's normal.

 

[nevenbekriev]

Not normal, the mechanism should stay comfident in setting position. Pressing the stem part which is in the movement in must bring the mechanism in winding mode. I have video to show this somewhere...

 

[graemeW]

Looks like there is at least a spring missing in here.

So how does this work, the crown is normally in wind position, and then you push it it to adjust the time? Does it then spring back out?

I don't see a way for the stem to grab and be able to pull a mechanism like normal.

2 minutes ago, nevenbekriev said:

Not normal, the mechanism should stay comfident in setting position. Pressing the stem part which is in the movement in must bring the mechanism in winding mode. I have video to show this somewhere...

 

I see.

So I really need a zenith specific case.

That's disappointing.

[nevenbekriev]

The tube in the case needs to be equipped with 'sleeve' - the part that clicks and fixes the stem in both positions.

You are missing one lever and a spring in the movement. I have bigger Zenith calibers with the same design, so will be able to show the shape, but it is very caprice thing and the best option is to source parts from donor if really needed to be restored.

[graemeW]

1 hour ago, nevenbekriev said:

The tube in the case needs to be equipped with 'sleeve' - the part that clicks and fixes the stem in both positions.

You are missing one lever and a spring in the movement. I have bigger Zenith calibers with the same design, so will be able to show the shape, but it is very caprice thing and the best option is to source parts from donor if really needed to be restored.

Yeah, I suspect parts aren't going fro be easy. And without a case, reasonably pointless. The case isn't such an issue, it's the stem parts that will be tricky.

I've been through all the runs a few times. Found 2 of the 3 missing screws. Found a screw to gold the ratchet wheel on too.

Took it apart to check jewels and pivots and it's all good. It was trying to run when I put it back together. It's a nicely made thing.

I'll put it to one side in case any donors come my way in future. 

I assume this is the case part of the stem. Not that it's much use on it's own. I'll see if I can find a diagram of the other parts. Just curious really.

Found this on eBay, seems I also have the correct screw down case back.

[nevenbekriev]

22 hours ago, graemeW said:

I assume this is the case part of the stem. Not that it's much use on it's own. I'll see if I can find a diagram of the other parts. Just curious really.

 

The drawing of the stem is not as it should  be, It is of a regular one. The one You need is completely different.

[graemeW]

4 minutes ago, nevenbekriev said:

The drawing of the stem is not as it should  be, It is of a regular one. The one You need is completely different.

I've since found  a pic of what it should be and understand it now.

I saw a photo of the case parts.

Seems this might have been a desirable watch. It's almost identical to the zenith land and water, just doesn't have the dial markings.

The case back tells me it had the type 2 case, but websites say that didn't have a negative set system. I guess maybe the case back didn't go with this watch, but seems a large coincidence it's with it.

I'm sure I've seen pictures of the type 2 case and it looked negative set, so maybe the source info was wrong.

None of this really matters, just playing detective.

They also seem to have been fitted in dennison cases with the same negative set system.