Elgin Grade 315: Runs/stops with dial down/up

[Neverenoughwatches]

5 hours ago, docrpm said:

really neat, really expensive.

It's not, but it can be. I have a few of them, I don't think I paid more than £35 for any of them. 

[Nucejoe]

4 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

Exact factory specifications does not require a shim.

Bending of the balance bridge is only required if prior idiots bent the bridge for you and you need to restore it back to where it's supposed to be. Which unfortunately is quite common on American pocket watch repair.

Oh and what about the Swiss tool that I mentioned above why would the Swiss have a tool? Or even more important why would a school  like wostep use such a evil barbaric tool as that is actually how I know about the tools existence there must've been a reason why?

So yes in absolute perfect world you would never bend the bridge. You would also never use a shim as typically that's a sign of poor manufacturing skills ideally you would adjust the balance pivots and do a proper repair. Unless of course the repair requires you to restore the bridge back to where it was supposed to be in the first place.

Yes, attempts for undoing prior idiots wrong doing,  in inexpensive watches is common. 

Regs

[Neverenoughwatches]

27 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

prior idiots bent the bridge for you 

An amazing way with words, I laughed so loud the neighbour's dog started barking . At last we have a new term for " watch breakers "  curtesy of John........." Prior Idiots "...I think it is perfectly fitting, I can't wait to use it

[mbwatch]

50 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I don't think I paid more than £35 for any of them. 

Really you paid that little for a legit Trupoise?

[Neverenoughwatches]

It was about 4 years ago, one was 30, another 35 and 2 others came in joblots that I was after something else. 3 have ruby jewels and one has ceramic bearings.The most I've seen one sell for is £330.  In the uk i still see them sell occasionally for around £70. 

I'm not convinced that the Trupoise has low enough friction on the pivots to be as good as a traditional tripod poising tool with unworn ruby jaws.

[rehajm]

I found a Trupoise in a flea market box of tools (car boot). I preferred the ‘8’ style tool until the moment I broke my new Omega rivet. The trupoise holds the arms firmly and I’ve become quite efficient…

…and I just resorted to bending a balance cock. I needed a tiny bit less shake and it seemed the least risky of the other options. I held it between a stump and a fat stake while I bent the jewel end with my fingers. Honestly I don’t know how anyone would know by visual inspection. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

6 hours ago, rehajm said:

The trupoise holds the arms firmly and I’ve become quite efficient…

? I don't know what you mean holds the arms ?

The internal spring in the spindle should allow it to hold up to the rivet and the hub of the staff.

But that means taking off both the collet and the rolle. With a figure of 8 calipers that have the correct nibs fitted you don't need to do that to true a balance wheel. 

[JohnR725]

1 hour ago, rehajm said:

and I just resorted to bending a balance cock

Bending the balance bridge does seem to be an acceptable method as is taught in school and after all the Swiss make a nifty tool. But?

4 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

Yes, attempts for undoing prior idiots wrong doing,

Something was bothering me this discussion has gone on for five pages for one watch? One of the things we have to be very careful about when teaching watch repair on a discussion group is our observations of what's going on is based on the posting person making observations. The problem is if the person making observations does not actually grasp 100% what's going on will we become the idiots?

so for instance bending the balance bridge why would we do that? Typically if it's been bent by somebody else and were restoring it back to wherever it's supposed to be. Or basically the Swiss are using it to fine tune the end shake. But it appears to be if I'm reading correctly we have a variation of 0.5 mm which is not a minor amount of end shake.

this is where when you read five pages of discussion it becomes kind of a confusing mess so I would not recommend bending the balance bridge until we figure out exactly what's going on. So while I'm not a big fan of shimming which is extremely popular with @Nucejoe I do think it's perfectly acceptable until we actually figure out what's going on.

[rehajm]

…here’s a factory shim on a supposedly high quality movement…as I said it’s a lovely shim, though…

[Neverenoughwatches]

11 hours ago, mbwatch said:

Really you paid that little for a legit Trupoise?

Actually the last two were not so long ago, I was actually after the stakes and the Trupoise just happened to be there as a bonus. Just counted them, I have 4 and another similar one but better . So yes they do come up for sale quite cheap sometimes if nobody is wanting to buy one at the time.

1 hour ago, rehajm said:

…here’s a factory shim on a supposedly high quality movement…as I said it’s a lovely shim, though…

Somewhat of an overreaction ! I have learnt a few things from Kalle ( generally not what to do lol ) , but he honestly does my head in .

I might even have to demote him to the level of our new watch term- generously donated by John-  of  " Prior Idiot " 

9 hours ago, rehajm said:

found a Trupoise in a flea market box of tools (car boot). 

This statement make you " The Man " today. I've had some pretty good finds at carboots inc. A Dirty Dozen, but a Trupoise puts you up there on tge leader board today

And my attention to grammar and spelling is failing today , jist though Id mension thhat.

Edited 3 hours ago by Neverenoughwatches

[Nucejoe]

 Didn't know shimming conforms to Swiss horolog standards, in watch repair, if its to  compensate for pivot wear, it actually is not a bad practice, for the following reasons. 

1- No need to deform any part. 

2- Substitutes restaffing balance wheel, thus no need to re-poise balance wheel, among other tasks to built a balance complete. 

 Which is why, I tend to recommend shimming specially to beginers. 

Lets not forget,  to beginers, getting a non runner to tick and perhaps tok   is best encouragement. 

Regs

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Nucejoe
Correct repeated post.

[Neverenoughwatches]

Different methods for different reasons and different levels of skill. The methods change as the skill improves, it's just a way of progression and evolving. The reverse is true, when a skill deteriorates, the ways change to compensate.

[LittleWatchShop]

I read somewhere that some trupoise found in the wild have an alignment problem. I cannot remember details, but when I got mine, it was the first thing I checked.

[Neverenoughwatches]

This is actually my favourite static poising tool.