AS 1903 canon pinion disassembly, lubrication and reassembly

[nickvon]

Hello all,

I have recently serviced an AS 1903 movement and after reassembly I found changing the time very stiff, and creaky. I then proceeded to disassemble again bit by bit to isolate the problem. I happened across another blog https://onatelier.co.uk/bucherer-automatic-a-schild-cal-1903-service which mentiones the disassembly/lubrication of the canon pinion. I realised that my canon pinion cog or both cogs are supposed to rotate freely around the shaft and mine have all but seized. Now this is where my lack of experience comes in. How does one disassemble this part? I assume the silver cog or both silver cogs are friction fit on the shaft, but I don't know how I would go about lifting it off the shaft without damagint something. I have a staking set and other basic tools and not a lot of experience. I wonder if someone might be able to guide me.

Many thanks

 

[Knebo]

27 minutes ago, nickvon said:

Hello all,

I have recently serviced an AS 1903 movement and after reassembly I found changing the time very stiff, and creaky. I then proceeded to disassemble again bit by bit to isolate the problem. I happened across another blog https://onatelier.co.uk/bucherer-automatic-a-schild-cal-1903-service which mentiones the disassembly/lubrication of the canon pinion. I realised that my canon pinion cog or both cogs are supposed to rotate freely around the shaft and mine have all but seized. Now this is where my lack of experience comes in. How does one disassemble this part? I assume the silver cog or both silver cogs are friction fit on the shaft, but I don't know how I would go about lifting it off the shaft without damagint something. I have a staking set and other basic tools and not a lot of experience. I wonder if someone might be able to guide me.

Many thanks

 

I don't know this exact movement, but the cannon pinion construction looks similar to a Universal Genève 66 that I recently worked on. 

See here my description for disassembly, lubrication and assembly:

https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/31700-universal-geneve-2-66-1-66-66-walk-through/?do=findComment&comment=272783

Edited February 27 by Knebo

[Geotex]

If you search for "offset cannon" on this site you will find some other WRT threads that discuss this type of cannon pinion and how to service and/or repair them. 

[GuyMontag]

This is how I usually remove a friction pinion. The photo is of the friction pinion from an AS1916, which I believe is the same/similar as in the 1903.




 

 

Edited February 27 by GuyMontag

[Neverenoughwatches]

[nickvon]

5 hours ago, GuyMontag said:

This is how I usually remove a friction pinion. The photo is of the friction pinion from an AS1916, which I believe is the same/similar as in the 1903.




 

 

Is this an Aliexpress tool? I can't seem to find it in Cousins.

[GuyMontag]

10 minutes ago, nickvon said:

Is this an Aliexpress tool? I can't seem to find it in Cousins.

Yes, it was one of these:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256807183264194.html

[mbwatch]

11 hours ago, nickvon said:

I have a staking set and other basic tools

It's possible you have a stump in your staking set that could be used too. Do you have one with a deep V groove, or perhaps some of the old fashioned roller remover stumps that have like a cross opening cut in them?

[nickvon]

11 minutes ago, mbwatch said:

It's possible you have a stump in your staking set that could be used too. Do you have one with a deep V groove, or perhaps some of the old fashioned roller remover stumps that have like a cross opening cut in them?

Sadly not, I have a fairly small set which is just a hodge podge of two sets I picked up at a swiss watch show, it's a bit rubbish tbh.

[GuyMontag]

I have one in my staking set but the opening isn't big enough to fit the wheel.

[nickvon]

I think GuyMontags suggestion this might be the way forward. 

Edited February 27 by nickvon

[fixermole]

I recently had the same issue with an AS 1904. Although this is not the proper tool for such, I dulled the cutting surfaces of this end cutter and was able to carefully squeeze the gap between the gears to separate them, then I was able to pull it straight off like a two-piece winding stem. Just don't clamp down all the way. I didn't damage any of the teeth, but still don't feel particularly comfortable using this technique. Just need to add yet another useful tool to the neverending list.

[Knebo]

8 hours ago, GuyMontag said:

This is how I usually remove a friction pinion. The photo is of the friction pinion from an AS1916, which I believe is the same/similar as in the 1903.




 

 

Aren't you worried about damaging the pivot when you press onto it?

 

Besides, I'm quite curious about that tool. I saw the link, but can you elaborate on it's functioning? 

 

[GuyMontag]

I'm using the blunt end of my brass tweezers so I wouldn't expect it to be able to harm the pivot. Mark shows in a video how he removes friction pinions with the Platax tool. I believe that uses a steel stake.

The only thing I use that tool for is removing friction pinions. It looks somewhat similar to the Platax tool.
 

 

Edited February 28 by GuyMontag

[fixermole]

1 hour ago, GuyMontag said:

The only thing I use that tool for is removing friction pinions. It looks somewhat similar to the Platax tool.

Could you share what that particular tool you use is called?

[GuyMontag]

1 hour ago, fixermole said:

Could you share what that particular tool you use is called?

I'm not sure what it is called, on Aliexpress the title is, "Watch Repair Tool Removal and Installation of Watch Balance Wheel Balance Staff Tool for Watchmaker"

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256807183264194.html

[Knebo]

8 hours ago, GuyMontag said:

I'm using the blunt end of my brass tweezers so I wouldn't expect it to be able to harm the pivot. Mark shows in a video how he removes friction pinions with the Platax tool. I believe that uses a steel stake.

The only thing I use that tool for is removing friction pinions. It looks somewhat similar to the Platax tool.
 

 

I was more thinking of the risk of bending the pivot when free-handing it (as opposed to a perpendicular action like in Mark's video). 

But I guess centre wheel pivots are quite strong. 

[nickvon]

13 hours ago, GuyMontag said:

I'm using the blunt end of my brass tweezers so I wouldn't expect it to be able to harm the pivot. Mark shows in a video how he removes friction pinions with the Platax tool. I believe that uses a steel stake.

The only thing I use that tool for is removing friction pinions. It looks somewhat similar to the Platax tool.
 

 

I wish I'd seen this video before, this is literally the movement I've been working on! I guess one could use a staking punch and lightly tap it out. Weirdly however my pinion looks like it as a sort of collar at the top of the shaft, so I'm curious how the cog wheel will slider over this. 

[nickvon]

Thank all for your advice. I bought this Chinese tool which I used with great success. The cog was crudded up with about 50 year old grease, it now moves beautifully. This is the tool I got for AliExpress to split the cog and I used my staking set to push it back on with a satisfying click!

 

 

[Bill2024]

On 3/10/2025 at 7:19 PM, nickvon said:

Thank all for your advice. I bought this Chinese tool which I used with great success. The cog was crudded up with about 50 year old grease, it now moves beautifully. This is the tool I got for AliExpress to split the cog and I used my staking set to push it back on with a satisfying click!

 

 

I have this tool as well - just bought it - and want to use it for hairspring comets and a friction pinion from an as1900 so glad it works well for that. 

Can I ask though what is the centre part in the bottom picture used for? I thought maybe it was for tightening canon pinions somehow but it doesn’t really seem right for that. Grateful if you can share any info. Thanks.