Zenith 126 movement/ Balance wheel stopped

[Steliosg]

Hello everyone!

I'm new to watch repair and recently decided to bring an old Zenith from the '60s with a 126 movement back to life.
It was running fine, but the stem was rusty, so I opened it up to replace it. While I was at it, I also disassembled, cleaned, and lubricated the movement.
After reassembling everything, I tested it before installing the balance, and all the gears moved freely.

However, once I put the balance in, it just won’t keep running. If I give it a shake or a gentle blow, it moves a couple of times and then stops.
Any ideas on what might be wrong? Is the balance in bad shape ? I can see a small bent.

I’d really appreciate any advice!

Thanks in advance!

 

[RichardHarris123]

Hello and welcome from Leeds, England. Does the pallet (lever) snap back and forth, like it should do?  

35 minutes ago, Steliosg said:

Hello everyone!

I'm new to watch repair and recently decided to bring an old Zenith from the '60s with a 126 movement back to life.
It was running fine, but the stem was rusty, so I opened it up to replace it. While I was at it, I also disassembled, cleaned, and lubricated the movement.
After reassembling everything, I tested it before installing the balance, and all the gears moved freely.

However, once I put the balance in, it just won’t keep running. If I give it a shake or a gentle blow, it moves a couple of times and then stops.
Any ideas on what might be wrong? Is the balance in bad shape ? I can see a small bent.

I’d really appreciate any advice!

Thanks in advance!

 

 

Oops, something went wrong, the lower pivot looks worn, see the attached. 

[Steliosg]

Yes the pallet snaps back and forth like it should .
About the worn pivot , shouldn’t at least start working even with being worn ? 

[AndyGSi]

Does the balance oscillate freely without the pallet installed?

[Steliosg]

Yes it oscillates freely, even with the pallet installed it moves the pallet for 2 , 3 times if I gently blow with the blower then it stops .

[AndyGSi]

1 minute ago, Steliosg said:

Yes it oscillates freely, even with the pallet installed it moves the pallet for 2 , 3 times if I gently blow with the blower then it stops .

Without the pallet installed it should oscillate for 60 seconds after a gentle blow.

[Steliosg]

I Will  have to check that i am not sure how long it oscillated without the pallet.
if it does not last is balance issue ? 

[AndyGSi]

As @RichardHarris123 has highlighted the pivot doesn't look good but would need to see a better photo.

It could also be the pivot jewels or a combination of both.

[nevenbekriev]

The hairspring is badly deformed. I mean in a manner that is beyond repair, sorry. We need to see it on the balance without the cock, but no much hope.

[Steliosg]

Well, I removed the pallet, and it still won’t oscillate more than two or three times.
So, my fear is confirmed , it’s the hairspring.
If it’s not repairable, as you mentioned, do you have any recommendations on where I could find a complete balance or just the hairspring?

[JohnR725]

We need a sideways view of the balance wheel with the bridge in the watch to see how bad they hairspring really is. Because the way it is out of the watch there is no way the balance wheels going to move.

Then not the best picture of your pallet fork here. I enhanced it a little bit so we can see things better it looks like the pallet stone is out by a heck of a lot and that would definitely be an issue. It be nice of you get a better picture of both sides so we can see how deep the pallet stones are in.

[AndyGSi]

33 minutes ago, Steliosg said:

Well, I removed the pallet, and it still won’t oscillate more than two or three times.
So, my fear is confirmed , it’s the hairspring.
If it’s not repairable, as you mentioned, do you have any recommendations on where I could find a complete balance or just the hairspring?

If the pivot is damaged then your best option is to get a complete balance.

As mentioned by @JohnR725 the fork needs further investigation before you proceed.

[Steliosg]

I attach some new pics , I can definitely see the hairspring has been malformed and the pivot has some wear . I will try to straighten it .
About the fork I am not sure there is an issue . I will have to double check that 

[AndyGSi]

If you're getting a new complete balance you need to make sure it's
the correct one based on the type of spring and shock settings.

[nevenbekriev]

On the last pictures the hairspring appears to be not that frightful. What I decided from first pictures is that it is stretched as a funnel, but may be I am wrong and the problem is at the end curve or only close to the end. We need good hairspring picture without the cock to see it in free state.

[Steliosg]

This is the hairspring .

From the side it indeed looks like a funnel you are correct . I am not sure why and how this happened my moves were meticulous. I will work it a bit and see how it goes .

 

what do you think can it be recovered ?

[AndyGSi]

Can you post a photo of the top pivot as that looks worse than the bottom.

Before you go too far with the spring (although I suppose it's good to learn from) what equipment have you got if you need to swap the staff?

[nevenbekriev]

The hairspring... I for example will be able to reshape it, but I guess am the only one in my country.

[Klassiker]

16 hours ago, nevenbekriev said:

but I guess am the only one in my country

What do you see that makes it look so difficult? I'd be quite optimistic looking at the photos, but clearly I'm missing something.

[praezis]

17 hours ago, nevenbekriev said:

but I guess am the only one in my country.

I can imagine, Nev is right - he is not in my country .

But redistorting a funnel shaped hairspring is no fun at all, you cannot be sure that the coils will go back equally. 

[nevenbekriev]

The spring seems to be distorted in every single point of it's length. Booth in plain and  concentricity.

[Klassiker]

46 minutes ago, nevenbekriev said:

The spring seems to be distorted in every single point of it's length. Booth in plain and  concentricity.

OK, agreed, but the basic principles of pulling it back into shape still apply. I'd be optimistic, and I'm no expert. It might take me a long time, and the result might not be perfect, but I would expect it to be functional.

[caseback]

Stepping back and trying something simple that has not been suggested in this thread as far as I know (unless I missed that..): What did you do to clean the balance & mainspring? Looking at the photo, there seems to be a lot of dirt. Could it be coils are sticking together? Dunking it in some suitable cleaner (one-dip, haxane or other) and demagnetising the part might help. Nothing ventured..

Edited March 1 by caseback

[nevenbekriev]

Yes, cleaning is the first thing to do and I didn't imagine it is not done already. If the spring is sticky, then it will explain the great differences in the pictures in the beginning and the last ones. I thought it is due attempts to repair the spring...We need to see clean spring that doesn't tent to stick. We need side views too.

Edited March 1 by nevenbekriev

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, caseback said:

Stepping back and trying something simple that has not been suggested in this thread as far as I know (unless I missed that..): What did you do to clean the balance & mainspring? Looking at the photo, there seems to be a lot of dirt. Could it be coils are sticking together? Dunking it in some suitable cleaner (one-dip, haxane or other) and demagnetising the part might help. Nothing ventured..

Well spotted Cees, maybe some contaminated cleaning solution.