First movement service - some questions

[Knebo]

6 hours ago, Bill2024 said:

So I just did some more readings after 24 hours and for all 5 positions the average amplitude dropped from 241 to 211 so a drop of 30 degrees. The average rate across all positions fell from 1 s/d to -8 s/d

For the crown positions average amplitude dropped from 233 to 198, a drop of 35. The average rate for the crown positions dropped quite a bit though from -4 s/d to -17s/d

It seems that the amplitude drop is within what is to be expected albeit from a lowish starting point. I'll repeat this with a cleaned mainspring and maybe a new mainspring to get a feel for the difference changes to the spring can make.

These are good results. The amplitude is fine.

[Bill2024]

2 hours ago, Knebo said:

These are good results. The amplitude is fine.

Thanks - good to know. 

[mbwatch]

10 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

Typically with witschi the recommendation is 20 seconds but the Chinese in the witschi average the numbers slightly differently.

I think my Weishi 1900 may default to 12 seconds. I don't think it is as high as 20.

[Bill2024]

55 minutes ago, mbwatch said:

11 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

Typically with witschi the recommendation is 20 seconds but the Chinese in the witschi average the numbers slightly differently.

I think my Weishi 1900 may default to 12 seconds. I don't think it is as high as 20.

yes I have the Weishi 1900 and the default is 12s with a max of 60s and a min of 2s. I've never been clear on when to choose one timing interval over another though.

[JohnR725]

Just in case anyone has missed placed their 1000 or 1900 users manual I've attached PDFs of both of those.

Let me quote something from the various manual so for the 1000 manual we get this

Then when the 1000 machine powers As you can see it defaults to four seconds.

Then the 1900

Then from the witschi watch expert two users manual more text explains what it does. Simplistically all of this is it averages the graphical display over a time span giving you more stable numbers.

 

2 hours ago, Bill2024 said:

yes I have the Weishi 1900 and the default is 12s with a max of 60s and a min of 2s. I've never been clear on when to choose one timing interval over another though.

This is because the owners manuals of most timing machines really aren't the best. Or for that matter most companies selling a timing machine somehow assume that the user knows exactly what all the features are why the features are good and bad and exactly how to use them and really don't explain in detail how or why you do anything with your machine somehow you just post to know how to use it.

Then with the evolution of the timing machines going from paper tape just printing out two lines basically the graphical display only with the new capabilities came new settings on the timing machine.

Then the problem of course with timing specifications are there relatively modern to correspond to more modern watches. So the closest possibly equivalent to your watch I'm attaching a ETA 2804-2 manufacturing information. This is where all the nifty specifications can be found including timing specifications.

So for this watch 2804 it comes in two separate grades with apparently only the timing being the difference. Often times for the different grades there will be actual differences of some of the components especially if the watch has a top grade or chronometer grade then they'll definitely be different components but here they appear to be identical except the timing

Then we do get the 20 seconds stabilization time which does seem to be the most typical

WeiShi 1000.PDF WeiShi Timegrapher 1900.PDF ETA 2804-2 - Manufacturing Information.pdf

[Neverenoughwatches]

14 hours ago, Bill2024 said:

yes I have the Weishi 1900 and the default is 12s with a max of 60s and a min of 2s. I've never been clear on when to choose one timing interval over another though.

Your timegrapher takes a reading every couple of seconds regardless, but with shorter sampling periods you will notice the top display changes more frequently. This is the averaging out time for those readings it takes that it uses to show you how the movement is running. There are power fluctuations constantly taking place in a movement for all sorts of reasons,  mostly discrepancies in the escapement and train gear meshing from wear and tear throughout and maybe also with the mainspring. Longer sampling times will iron out those discrepancies and provide a better stable reading more in line with what is seen on on the wrist. A shorter time setting is more convenient when regulating, positional adjustments and for dynamic poising. 

Or you could turn off and reset your tg for long averaging after each positional change.

[Bill2024]

On 3/8/2025 at 7:57 AM, Neverenoughwatches said:

Your timegrapher takes a reading every couple of seconds regardless, but with shorter sampling periods you will notice the top display changes more frequently. This is the averaging out time for those readings it takes that it uses to show you how the movement is running. There are power fluctuations constantly taking place in a movement for all sorts of reasons,  mostly discrepancies in the escapement and train gear meshing from wear and tear throughout and maybe also with the mainspring. Longer sampling times will iron out those discrepancies and provide a better stable reading more in line with what is seen on on the wrist. A shorter time setting is more convenient when regulating, positional adjustments and for dynamic poising. 

Or you could turn off and reset your tg for long averaging after each positional change.

Thanks - yes that makes sense. So maybe the default 12s is good when you are in the process of regulating and then 20s or 30s when you are actually analysing the state of the movement after regulation.

I had to go and look up what dynamic poising is! I found this which I'm including a link to in case it helps any other newbies.

https://adjustingvintagewatches.com/category/dynamic-poising/

[JohnR725]

On 3/7/2025 at 11:57 PM, Neverenoughwatches said:

A shorter time setting is more convenient when regulating, positional adjustments and for dynamic poising. 

Maybe you would like to elaborate a little more because I'm not sure why this would be?

4 hours ago, Bill2024 said:

yes that makes sense. So maybe the default 12s is good when you are in the process of regulating and then 20s or 30s when you are actually analysing the state of the movement after regulation.

The interesting thing here is your timing machine defaults to 12 seconds. Then the 1000 defaults to 4 seconds. Then the Swiss witschi machines default to whatever they were last left because they'll remember where they are. With some machines like the one we have at work has 30 different programs so whatever their programs for.

Then the other thing very important when analyzing thing is is to look at the graphical display what it is doing. This is why when people give numbers on the discussion all usually ask for picture because I want to look at the graphical display as that will tell quite a bit.