Waltham 1123 stem and crown removal help

[nenyon1]

I have a Waltham permaforce Incabloc watch I inherited from my grandpa.  Nobody wanted to watch because the crown had been broken off.  I've taken the watch apart, and been able to identify the screw to remove the stem. On the site was mentioned that I can find the model number underneath the balance. I found the numbers 1123 and 1124, and believe these may be the movements model number?  

As I try to spin the screw to release the stem, it won't budge and I'm worried that I'm going to damage the movement. Should I lubricate the screw? Should I find a smaller screwdriver? Assuming I'm able to get the stem out, what's the best way to get a new stem and crown for this watch?  Folks thank you so much in advance for your help..

[AndyGSi]

Welcome to the forum.

Which screw are you trying to remove and do you have the equipment to remove and replace the hands if necessary.

[RichardHarris123]

28 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

Welcome to the forum.

Which screw are you trying to remove and do you have the equipment to remove and replace the hands if necessary.

He's trying to loosen the set screw. 

I don't know which size of screwdriver you tried, you need on the correct size. 

[AndyGSi]

4 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

He's trying to loosen the set screw. 

I should have been clearer, I know he's trying to loosen the set screw but do they know which is the correct screw.

[nenyon1]

Thank you for the replies.  I have a very small screw driver, but it must not be small enough, and I'd resolve to buy a set of watch tools.  The set screw (didn't know that's what it was called, thank you) I'm trying to take out is the screw closest to the stem, if the stem is facing north, I believe the set screw is just to the left (picture below).  I hadn't anticipated the hands coming off, I'm sure I'm doing this wrong, but I set the dial on an open platform, so the hands weren't getting pinched while I tried to get that set screw out.  Best to take the hands off first so they aren't damaged? Should I not take out the stem and try to find an extender and crown that would fit?

[AndyGSi]

I mentioned removing the hands and dial as a last resort by giving you direct access to the setting lever.

The screwdriver head should be the same width as the screw and sit in the slot so it touches the sides without bottoming out.

You could try a stem extended but this would need to be secured with the movement in place.

Also finding a generic crown wouldn't be a problem.

Edit

Can you post a photo of the movement back in the case as to me the stem looks long enough.

Edited March 7 by AndyGSi

[nenyon1]

Here's some pics of the movement and how close the stem is to peeking out.

[AndyGSi]

So it does look like it would take a crown with a short tube directly but this has raised another question as to what should be their as a pendant tube.

[nenyon1]

Hi AndyGSi, I had to look up pendant tube, I wasn't familiar with that term.  Only with that question did it occur to me that even with an extender and crown, without the pendant tube, this wouldn't be water resistant at all.  Sigh.  Is my best path forward going to be to buying a similar one on eBay and making a Frankenstein?  

[AndyGSi]

I don't think you'll need an extender just the correct type crown.

Can you measure the hole size where the crown fits.

With this type of arrangement you're never going to get any sort of water resistance.

Edit

Think this is what yours should be like.

Edited March 9 by AndyGSi

[nenyon1]

That looks exactly like what I need.  Should I buy the crown as part of the crown kits sold on Amazon, where they sell 100 crowns? Or should I buy one especially made for this?  How do I know how much stem broke off with the last crown?  I think I should probably still take out the stem so I can get the new crown for on snuggly.  Is that what you would do?

[AndyGSi]

The ones from Amazon in packs of 100 are too cheap for this watch, you need something better quality.

You should be able to grip the stem with pliers while you fit the crown so no need to remove it.

Can you post a photo with it in the case back to see how close to the edge the stem is.

Edit

Can you also confirm the size of the hole when both case parts are together.

Where in the world are you?

Edited March 9 by AndyGSi

[nenyon1]

Got it, no Amazon.  I'm in the USA.  The opening is just less than 2mm.  The distance from the stem to the opening is less than 1mm.  The stem is basically at the opening.  I think the pics I just took show that?  Thanks again for all your time AndyGSi.  Really appreciate it.  I'm getting excited to get this on a wrist again.  It's been out of action for a while.

[AndyGSi]

Wasn't 100% sure from your original photos but if anything the stem looks too long but it can't be.

So the next question is what diameter does it need to be.

Looking at this example I'd say maybe 5mm.

Edit

What diameter is the thread along with a more accurate diameter for the hole.

Edited March 10 by AndyGSi

[nenyon1]

1.778mm or .07 inches is stem opening hole.  .8382mm (.033 in) is the stem thickness. I've taken a few better pictures of the end of the stem.  I'm fairly sure the crown snapped off, due to the angle of the end, but I can't know for sure.

 

Edited March 11 by nenyon1
Extra pic

[nenyon1]

This is how 5mm would look centered on the opening.  That looks right to me.

[RichardHarris123]

Something like theses, range from 3mm, to 5.9 mm

 

[AndyGSi]

24 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Something like theses, range from 3mm, to 5.9 mm

 

Not sure if the .8382mm measured is correct as I'd have expected a 0.9mm stem.

[nenyon1]

3 hours ago, AndyGSi said:

Not sure if the .8382mm measured is correct as I'd have expected a 0.9mm stem.

Very possible I've not measured in the right way, plus I'm converting from a caliper that measures in inches...  I'll give it a few more shots and report back.  Thank you all again for the guidance.

[fellerts]

On 3/7/2025 at 5:25 AM, nenyon1 said:

As I try to spin the screw to release the stem, it won't budge and I'm worried that I'm going to damage the movement

When you find the correct screwdriver for this, take note that you should not unscrew it fully. This screw punches through the main plate (main body of the movement) and attaches to a component on the dial-side called the setting lever (hence the screw's full name, the setting lever screw). If you were to unscrew this completely, the setting lever would fall off the end of the screw and you'd have to remove the dial and hands as well as other components of the keyless works to reattach it.

My rule of thumb: 1.5 turns (three half twists) is usually sufficient to allow the stem to come out without much fuss. When reinserting the stem, insert it fully and gently tighten the screw. If you feel resistance, wiggle the stem back and forth and tighten more. You're encouraging the setting lever to find its slot in the stem.

edit: then there's the question of whether the stem should be in the winding or hand setting position when removing it... on some movements it matters, on others it doesn't. I usually pull it to the setting position.

Edited March 11 by fellerts
another thought

[nenyon1]

3 hours ago, AndyGSi said:

Not sure if the .8382mm measured is correct as I'd have expected a 0.9mm stem.

I opened the calipers to. 9mm, and it's visibly to big, it doesn't touch both sides of the stem and easily slips through.  .8 is too small, is there a .85 possibility for this stem, or is it either .8 or .9?

[AndyGSi]

They only do 0.8mm & 0.9mm stems and wasn't aware of a 0.8mm for the 1123.

Edit

It's while since I've needed to measure a stem but the 0.9 does measure about 0.83/0.84

 

Edited March 11 by AndyGSi

[mbwatch]

38 minutes ago, fellerts said:

If you were to unscrew this completely, the setting lever would fall off the end of the screw and you'd have to remove the dial and hands as well as other components of the keyless works to reattach it.

This is important! Only loosen that screw bit by bit until the stem releases. Otherwise you'll have a mess on your hands.

[AndyGSi]

3 minutes ago, mbwatch said:

This is important! Only loosen that screw bit by bit until the stem releases. Otherwise you'll have a mess on your hands.

Stem doesn't need to be removed

[nenyon1]

Of course the exact one I want is out of stock.  For the price, I'll get several in the 9 range and one in the 8.  I'm confident 8 won't fit, but just in case so I don't have to pay for shipping twice. 

When it arrives, just stabilize the stem and screw it on?  Any thread lubricant or product I should use?  My only doubt here, these will fit through the hole in the side of the watch?  I don't see that outside diameter measurement listed on the cousins website.