Pallet Fork Stones

[Nobby]

Hello    I would like to ask the thoughts about where to source pallet stones both entry & exit for American pocket watches

the sizes I require are no longer stocked by Cousins U.K. but they do have a new product from seagull , has anyone used these?

Thanks

[JohnR725]

On 3/20/2025 at 2:34 AM, Nobby said:

I would like to ask the thoughts about where to source pallet stones both entry & exit for American pocket watches

How many watches are we talking about here? Then why do they need to be replaced? Plus it be nice to know exactly which watch

[Nobby]

Hi  Three 18s Elgins the stones are missing from the pallet Fargo , Ogden & Raymond all key wind

[Nobby]

On 3/21/2025 at 8:23 PM, JohnR725 said:

How many watches are we talking about here? Then why do they need to be replaced? Plus it be nice to know exactly which watch

Three 18s Elgins  Fargo, Raymond , Ogden  all missing one pallet stone

[JohnR725]

12 hours ago, Nobby said:

Three 18s Elgins  Fargo, Raymond , Ogden  all missing one pallet stone

ideally it would be nice to have serial numbers because typically that's needed to identify the exact watch to get the exact parts but probably not in this case. I'm currently making a speculation as I haven't gone all the way through the process but I have replaced pallet stones in the past.

So let's see if my speculation works out that they're probably all the same

in the absence of a serial number I don't know exactly which watch you have. But let's go to 1915 parts book at that time Elgin was using a class system for parts identification. Some time in the well after this parts book they entirely reorganized and have a different system.

so the early watches had name grades later on they just had numbers. It had to do with people counterfeiting their watches they went to non-named watches to confuse the counterfeiters. So two of yours are a class 5. But the Raymond is a whole bunch of different classes none of which have the number five. This is why if we were looking for anything else other than a few components everything conceivably would be different

 

then for learning purposes pallet forks for 18 size single roller which I assume is what you have. Typically on vintage watches it's not good to replace the entire pallet fork because all the escapement components were hand fit. Which means unlike a modern watch for modern pallet fork can be a swapped out with no consequences on vintage you would have to adjust so it is best to make use of whatever you have

fortunately they go by watch size and you can see the problem of having watches of multiple classifications or we don't know which classification it is there are quite a few different 18 size pallet forks.

then on the bottom of the page we get drawings of what the pallet forks look like and the other problem of variations especially in the early watches

 

then even though we have a classification system lots and lots of variations when we come to the actual pallet stones themselves they're basically all identical almost. So basically one part number you have to specify which stone you'd want that is if we had a time machine and you could go back in time to when the factories existed and the material it's made out of. So basically it says any 18 size Elgin pallet fork would have a usable jewel. Conceivably other American watch companies may have all been using jewels made by the same company. This is where it be nice typically on eBay to find a pallet fork assortment and if you're lucky you'll find a pallet stone otherwise you're going to have to try to find an 18 size pallet fork to get the jewels from.

the problem with parts and vintage American pocket watches is I don't know if any of the material houses Woodstock pallet jewels and if they did they definitely would not be online you would have to ask. Here's one place you could try emailing Dave and see if he has any pallet stones

https://www.daveswatchparts.com/index.html

oh and 18 size American pocket watches are big unlikely that anything modern would fit. 

 

[Nobby]

5 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

ideally it would be nice to have serial numbers because typically that's needed to identify the exact watch to get the exact parts but probably not in this case. I'm currently making a speculation as I haven't gone all the way through the process but I have replaced pallet stones in the past.

So let's see if my speculation works out that they're probably all the same

in the absence of a serial number I don't know exactly which watch you have. But let's go to 1915 parts book at that time Elgin was using a class system for parts identification. Some time in the well after this parts book they entirely reorganized and have a different system.

so the early watches had name grades later on they just had numbers. It had to do with people counterfeiting their watches they went to non-named watches to confuse the counterfeiters. So two of yours are a class 5. But the Raymond is a whole bunch of different classes none of which have the number five. This is why if we were looking for anything else other than a few components everything conceivably would be different

 

then for learning purposes pallet forks for 18 size single roller which I assume is what you have. Typically on vintage watches it's not good to replace the entire pallet fork because all the escapement components were hand fit. Which means unlike a modern watch for modern pallet fork can be a swapped out with no consequences on vintage you would have to adjust so it is best to make use of whatever you have

fortunately they go by watch size and you can see the problem of having watches of multiple classifications or we don't know which classification it is there are quite a few different 18 size pallet forks.

then on the bottom of the page we get drawings of what the pallet forks look like and the other problem of variations especially in the early watches

 

then even though we have a classification system lots and lots of variations when we come to the actual pallet stones themselves they're basically all identical almost. So basically one part number you have to specify which stone you'd want that is if we had a time machine and you could go back in time to when the factories existed and the material it's made out of. So basically it says any 18 size Elgin pallet fork would have a usable jewel. Conceivably other American watch companies may have all been using jewels made by the same company. This is where it be nice typically on eBay to find a pallet fork assortment and if you're lucky you'll find a pallet stone otherwise you're going to have to try to find an 18 size pallet fork to get the jewels from.

the problem with parts and vintage American pocket watches is I don't know if any of the material houses Woodstock pallet jewels and if they did they definitely would not be online you would have to ask. Here's one place you could try emailing Dave and see if he has any pallet stones

https://www.daveswatchparts.com/index.html

oh and 18 size American pocket watches are big unlikely that anything modern would fit. 

 

Thank you for that info, I know of daveswatchparts as have used many times before I also have bought several matched pallet forks & escape wheels in the hope

they would do the job , therein is another problem the pivot size of the parts are larger than what was removed I would have bought Seitz pallet stones from a U.K.

supplier but they have for some sizes discontinued they now offer a product I do not now Seagull of the sizes that would work , but I do not know what these are like.

[tomh207]

I can’t directly vouch for the jewels however Sea-Gull is the largest manufacturer of watch movements currently so likely not terrible. 
 

Tom