Superglue problem solving

[tIB]

Mate of mine has asked me to clean up a crystal that he superglued back in place... easy! 

Except it isn't since upon removing the caseback I realise he's also glued in the movement! 

So, options then? I wondered about applying hot air and seeing if I could break the bond front side with a crystal lift, or if heating the case might soften the glue to free the movement? Overnight soak in IPA perhaps?

 

The crystal itself isn't bad so really I just want to access the inside of it to remove the glue residue or refit another. 

[mikepilk]

What is the crystal made off?  Acetone is the best solvent for superglue, but it will dissolve acrylic.

[tIB]

It's acrylic unfortunately. The watch itself is special to him so I don't want to do anything to put the hands and dial at risk - wonder if it would be better to live with it and attempt a repair if the crystal ever broke...

4 minutes ago, mikepilk said:

What is the crystal made off?  Acetone is the best solvent for superglue, but it will dissolve acrylic.

 

[mikepilk]

You don't want acetone or IPA anywhere near the dial.  Acrylic crystals are cheap, so If you can get the movement out, I would just replace the acrylic. Otherwise, probably best to leave it.

[AndyGSi]

Have you tried with just the crystal lift too see if you can brake the bond?

[Nucejoe]

 What metal is the case made of ?  Superglue ruins any base metal overtime, saving the movement's mainplate is main concern. 

Heat shrinks acrylic , So I break the crystal and clean the bezel. Clean the bezel.

 To seperate the dial, insert a razor blade into wherever superglue is applied. Scrape off all glue.

I give the watch a full service.

Regs

 

[LittleWatchShop]

pictures

[mikepilk]

31 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

 What metal is the case made of ?  Superglue ruins any base metal overtime

I'm surprised at this @Nucejoe. From what I've been able to find, once superglue has completely cured, after 24-48h, it doesn't out gas. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, tIB said:

Mate of mine has asked me to clean up a crystal that he superglued back in place... easy! 

Except it isn't since upon removing the caseback I realise he's also glued in the movement! 

So, options then? I wondered about applying hot air and seeing if I could break the bond front side with a crystal lift, or if heating the case might soften the glue to free the movement? Overnight soak in IPA perhaps?

 

The crystal itself isn't bad so really I just want to access the inside of it to remove the glue residue or refit another. 

Heat ( hairdryer )  generally doesn’t have much effect on superglue, certainly not the amount that wouldn't melt the acrylic crystal first ( ask me about using a hairdryer on a plexiglass, actually no, dont do that ) . He glued the movement in !

[watchweasol]

Hi first we need good picture’s othe crystal and movement in order to determine the amount of the application of the super glue. Secondly as @mikepilk said acetone is the best dissolver of superglue so careful application with a cotton bud might suffice depending on amount and location.

[tIB]

2 hours ago, mikepilk said:

You don't want acetone or IPA anywhere near the dial.  Acrylic crystals are cheap, so If you can get the movement out, I would just replace the acrylic. Otherwise, probably best to leave it.

I think I might well do the latter...

1 hour ago, AndyGSi said:

Have you tried with just the crystal lift too see if you can brake the bond?

I have, though didn't want to go too tight with it for fear of breaking the crystal. 

43 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Heat ( hairdryer )  generally doesn’t have much effect on superglue, certainly not the amount that wouldn't melt the acrylic crystal first ( ask me about using a hairdryer on a plexiglass, actually no, dont do that ) . He glued the movement in !

Ah, that's interesting - hadn't realised that. I realise there's some irony that I don't want to repair a precious item thats had superglue thrown at it! 

 

29 minutes ago, watchweasol said:

Hi first we need good picture’s othe crystal and movement in order to determine the amount of the application of the super glue. Secondly as @mikepilk said acetone is the best dissolver of superglue so careful application with a cotton bud might suffice depending on amount and location.

I'll take some later tonight - I can see superglue dial side so I think I'm going to just take the easy option and leave it for now, and if he ever breaks the clouded crystal have a go at it then...

It's not a valuable item other than for sentimental reasons as far as I know, so I'm probably better trying to fix it when/if it's actually broken, rather than risk making it worse now when it's usable. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

39 minutes ago, tIB said:

Ah, that's interesting - hadn't realised that. I realise there's some irony that I don't want to repair a precious item thats had superglue thrown at it! 

You don't want to repair it in case it gets made worse.

[tIB]

28 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

You don't want to repair it in case it gets made worse.

Yeah totally, the irony was more in his use of superglue on the special thing!

[Nucejoe]

1 hour ago, mikepilk said:

I'm surprised at this @Nucejoe. From what I've been able to find, once superglue has completely cured, after 24-48h, it doesn't out gas. 

Google,          ""  is super glue corrosive  ""

  Worst glue: Don't use cyanoacrylate glue! Also known as Super Glue, it is terrible for most electronic products. It's filled with corrosive chemicals that will off-gas, leaving a thin white haze on plastics, PCBs, and other

OVER TIME , corrodes metal too.

Regs

 

[RichardHarris123]

13 minutes ago, tIB said:

irony was more in his use of superglue on the special thing!

Definitely don't want super glue on the special thing. 

[mikepilk]

27 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

Google,          ""  is super glue corrosive  ""

I did, and from what I found it's not considered corrosive to metal. It's used in the aerospace and auto industries.

The quote you found is the only negative one I read.

27 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

OVER TIME , corrodes metal too.

Do you have evidence of this. 

Edited March 22 by mikepilk

[Nucejoe]

40 minutes ago, mikepilk said:

Do you have evidence of this. 

 Yes I do, plan to look through my watch scraps parts tomorrow, will look for samples to show.

Regs

Edited March 22 by Nucejoe

[Neverenoughwatches]

...as it happens, I am the superglue king lol. I've been using it for nearly 40 years, since it was introduced into the double glazing industry, which was my bread and butter in the late 80s. It's used almost exclusively in sticking  trims to upvc frames. The stuff I use has two setting times....thick slow and thin fast. I use it mostly for gluing upvc trims together also timber,rubber  leather, clothes, metal sometimes and skin but that's usually accidentally.  Good for holding minor wounds together.  The only thing I've known it to deteriorate over time is cloth materials but that is mostly due to its hardening affect which stops the material having any flexibility. It doesn't stick metal very well at all without compression, something we know by the glued caseback/nut trick. 

[tIB]

Had no idea it was potentially corrosive... that might put a different slant on it, though even so I'll probably look to leave it to an expert... I don't want to break the special thing!

[rjenkinsgb]

2 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

It's filled with corrosive chemicals that will off-gas, leaving a thin white haze on plastics, PCBs, and other

As far as I'm aware the off-gassing is only while in the uncured state, and the level of that depends on temperature. (eg. heating it causes the liquid stuff to give off vast amounts of vapour - as used to develop latent fingerprints).

The simple way to avoid any stray vapour around a joint is to mist the area with cyanoacrylate accelerator spray, which makes it cure almost instantly.

I use mostly "Mitre bond" kits - 50ml of fairly viscous adhesive and a can of accelerator for far less than many places charge for just a small tube or 20m bottle. The last ones I got were about £4 each kit.

 

Edited March 22 by rjenkinsgb
typo

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 minute ago, tIB said:

Had no idea it was potentially corrosive... that might put a different slant on it, though even so I'll probably look to leave it to an expert... I don't want to break the special thing!

In my experience it isn't after the full  cure has taken place. With plastic on plastic it forms a melted bond, impossible to seperate without damage. I honestly don't think it's corrosive once it is fully set.

When the accelerator is used often a weaker bond forms, but it's invaluable in winter and helps when gluing porous surfaces. Superglue has an antidote...a debonder solution but that's usually acetone.  Interesting but irrelevant with the ops situation. 

[PQR]

Not directly addressing the discussion, but I thought this general vid on superglue was great: Veritasium, Youtube

It's much more rigorous and comprehensive than its title suggests (history, chemical & physical properties, formulations) - I found it informative, but that corresponds to my inability to say whether any of it might be wrong.

[Neverenoughwatches]

9 hours ago, PQR said:

Not directly addressing the discussion, but I thought this general vid on superglue was great: Veritasium, Youtube

It's much more rigorous and comprehensive than its title suggests (history, chemical & physical properties, formulations) - I found it informative, but that corresponds to my inability to say whether any of it might be wrong.

 

Fantastic video , having used superglue hundreds of times every week as a joiner for the last 40 years I knew almost all of the applications mentioned in the video, when and would and wouldn't work, but not the science behind it.  I even thought I invented the use of it for sticking wounds together.....cuts on my hands etc since around 1988 ( I'm not a fan of wearing protective gloves lol ) I remember watching something on tv about a new idea of the use of it in the medical industry...my missus exclaimed " you've been doing that for tens years "  . 

[tIB]

44 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Fantastic video , having used superglue hundreds of times every week as a joiner for the last 40 years I knew almost all of the applications mentioned in the video, when and would and wouldn't work, but not the science behind it.  I even thought I invented the use of it for sticking wounds together.....cuts on my hands etc since around 1988 ( I'm not a fan of wearing protective gloves lol ) I remember watching something on tv about a new idea of the use of it in the medical industry...my missus exclaimed " you've been doing that for tens years "  . 

I heard its invention was a war thing where it was used for the purpose of treating cuts. (I thought Vietnam but Google says ww2.) 

[Neverenoughwatches]

3 minutes ago, tIB said:

I heard its invention was a war thing where it was used for the purpose of treating cuts. (I thought Vietnam but Google says ww2.) 

Probably true, according to the video it wasn't an accepted idea in the medical industry until the 90s , which sounds about right to me , in the UK anyway,when I heard about it.

Ahh the 90s, when I was a young carefree, superfit , stud muffin.