Unmarked, "Swiss Made", 17 Jewels

[coreymsnow]

Hi friends!

I've got a fun little pocketwatch I picked up because it looked interesting. It would run a little then stop so I figured it was worth at least seeing if cleaning it up would help get it back into shape.

It came in a gold case marked "Philedelphia Watch Case Co", said "Guaranteed for Ten Years". The case seems to have been made in Philadelphia (edit: I said it was "American Watch Case Company", that was incorrect.)

It's a hunter style case. The movement is 19 ligne, 42.86mm. If I had to guess it's from 1905 to 1915, but that's a barely-educated guess. The only markings on the movement are "SWISS MADE" on the baseplate under where the balance wheel goes, and "17 JEWELS" in an block font on the train wheel bridge. The dial has no name on it, and on the back of it has some marks I can't yet figure out- aside from the Serial #, the only marks that are distinct.

After tearing it down I found a serial number (412014) on the baseplate and also on the underside of the train wheel bridge.

There are no other hallmarks, stamps or anything else I can find on it. I removed the balance and looked under the balance cock, and there's nothing there either. It has screw-set jewels and is in overall OK condition. Some corrosion/rust in the keyless works, but very minor. The rest of it is just dirty as all hell.

I'm not an expert (yet), but my first thought was that it might be an IWC. However, after looking at a bunch of those I decided it's probably not- the bridge doesn't have the distinctive "crest" that IWC watches of a similar design seem to have near the escape wheel bridge. I also looked through some old catalogs to see if I could match up the keyless works to a model, but couldn't find anything close enough- but there's a lot to go through so I'll keep looking.

However, I thought maybe someone here might be able to identify it by its appearance. So if any of you lovely folks have any ideas, let me know! See pictures below.

And thank you kindly!

 

 

Edited March 25 by coreymsnow
got watch case maker name wrong.

[mbwatch]

The stem on this is built into the case, correct? It's obviously an American case and I do not see a setting lever screw. This would mean it was made specifically for the North American market, and then being 17 jewels is somewhat less common. You will find a lot of Swiss watches made for American cases with American style keyless works that are just 7 or even 6 jewels.

One question I have is - is this actually 17 jewels? The dial side photo of the movement is not clear enough to tell if there are jewels in those holes or they are just milled oil sinks into the plate. Since the other side has jewels set into brass, it is a little surprising not to see some sort of settings on the dial side and also the text "17 JEWELS" looks a little bit like it was stamped later. Again, I am putting this together from a blurry photo. And I have handled watches where the jewel count stamped on the bridge (after leaving the factory) wildly exaggerated the number in the watch.

 

 

 

[coreymsnow]

4 minutes ago, mbwatch said:

The stem on this is built into the case, correct? It's obviously an American case and I do not see a setting lever screw. This would mean it was made specifically for the North American market, and then being 17 jewels is somewhat less common. You will find a lot of Swiss watches made for American cases with American style keyless works that are just 7 or even 6 jewels.

One question I have is - is this actually 17 jewels? The dial side photo of the movement is not clear enough to tell if there are jewels in those holes or they are just milled oil sinks into the plate. Since the other side has jewels set into brass, it is a little surprising not to see some sort of settings on the dial side and also the text "17 JEWELS" looks a little bit like it was stamped later. Again, I am putting this together from a blurry photo. And I have handled watches where the jewel count stamped on the bridge (after leaving the factory) wildly exaggerated the number in the watch.

 

 

Thanks for the reply!

Yes, the crown and stem are part of the case. The movement was removed by popping the crystal+bezel off the front, then the movement simply comes out. I took the crown off the stem and looked under it for a hallmark; found nothing.

I looked at it more closely (sorry the photos were blurry), and yes, there are jewels in the dial side; the count looks to be accurate. I took a photo using a loupe. The jewels are filthy, but they are there.

[mbwatch]

17 being accurate, this is a pretty high grade watch for a Swiss import. Thanks for the additional photo showing the burnished jewels. It looks like you must have a jeweled center wheel as well. Plus the whip fine regulator. Nice.

I'm really not sure about the maker. I don't recognize it among the usual suspects of imports, like Langendorf/Stratford/Lanco, Buren but there were a zillion others.

I have seen pocket watches for sale with unlabeled dials where the movement as well as the case were labeled "American Watch Case Co" - whereby the case company must have imported ebauche movements to sell as their own.

[coreymsnow]

Your insights are much appreciated, thank you!

[coreymsnow]

Wanted to add a couple of tidbits:

First, it is NOT 17 jewels. The stamp actually says "12 JEWELS", but the 2 looks a heck of a lot like a 7. It showed up better when I cleaned it. My guess is the confusion is intentional.

Also, this thing is really beat up. There's scratches and marks all over it. Not in any critical areas for performance, but it's definitely been through some things. And unsurprising, the jewels are almost all cracked.

I managed to find some very tiny marks after getting it cleaned up. I thought they were just scratches before, but now they're obviously intentional- but I don't know what they mean. I had to put a 25x loupe on my phone camera to get a decent shot of them. There's a stamped "0" and then two of... whatever these marks are.

 

 

[nevenbekriev]

This is Record Watch Co movement, probably modification of Record 6 but with negative stem. And it has all the 17 jewels

[coreymsnow]

38 minutes ago, nevenbekriev said:

This is Record Watch Co movement, probably modification of Record 6 but with negative stem. And it has all the 17 jewels

Well, there it is. Certainly looks pretty darn close!

Thank you very kindly.