Clock newbie

[caseback]

I'm an absolute newbie when it comes to clocks, but I would like to give it a try. First patient is a Seikosha clock with a chiming mechanism. 

It looks like a butcher has been in here, trying to avoid having to do any bushing? 

Before I start dismantling this movement, I would like to do some homework first by watching some youtube videos (like I did before disassembling my first watch).

Could anyone recommend any good youtube channels? That would be really appreciated!

Are there any must have clock-related tools I need before I get started? I have watch tools, a lathe and a bushing tool (without reamers..).

[RichardHarris123]

Mainspring winder. Either buy one, or plenty of DIY ones one the Internet.  I made one. 

[oldhippy]

These movements are a copy of American movements such as Ansonia, New Haven just to name two. The springs are of the open type so not in mainspring barrels and they are very strong. You need s set of https://maddisonsofdurham.co.uk/value-range-round-mainspring-clamps-set-of-4-p1430 You can get them for good clock suppliers. The pinons are know as lantern pinons so the pivot holes can be a bit slack. It has been bodged up, so you have to make the best of what you have. Those clock bushing tools are a waste of money. Get yourself some  clock makers broaches and some wooden handles for the big ones, don't buy cheap brooches as the cutting edges soon get blunt a good set will last you a lifetime. Here is a photo of what is called a lantern pinion. Just ask if you need more help / advice. 

Edited March 28 by oldhippy

[mbwatch]

1 hour ago, oldhippy said:

what is called a lantern pinion.

Learned a new term! Thank you. I have seen these in American dollar pocket watches too, Ingersoll and Ingraham in particular, which are close relatives of small clocks and alarm clocks. It's good to have a name for them.

Edited March 28 by mbwatch

[Dell]

Have a look at Tommy Jobson he knows what he is at , plenty of his videos not just this link.

 

[nevenbekriev]

Hi Cees, this is simple clock, and You are anything but a newbie. Even if You are doing it for the first time, You already know a lot.

You don't need spring winder for this clock. The spring winder will be needed when the springs are in barrels.

There are many different opinions about the  ways of rebushing. I will advice to drill the holes for the bushings through a conductor. This is steel plate with hole that is drilled with the drill bit that will be used for drilling the holes in the plate. You position the conductor with it's hole centered above  the pivot hole in the plate and then clamp it on the plate, then drill the hole in the plate through the conductor.  This way shifting of the holes is avoided no matter how elongated by the wear they are. Then You can prepare bushes on the lathe with the proper size for the holes.

What is the condition of the pivots? In cheap clocks, the arbors are soft and burnishing doesn't help much when pivots are worn. Then repivoting with pivot wire is practiced rather than reshaping the worn pivots.

 

[caseback]

2 hours ago, nevenbekriev said:

Hi Cees, this is simple clock, and You are anything but a newbie. Even if You are doing it for the first time, You already know a lot.

You don't need spring winder for this clock. The spring winder will be needed when the springs are in barrels.

There are many different opinions about the  ways of rebushing. I will advice to drill the holes for the bushings through a conductor. This is steel plate with hole that is drilled with the drill bit that will be used for drilling the holes in the plate. You position the conductor with it's hole centered above  the pivot hole in the plate and then clamp it on the plate, then drill the hole in the plate through the conductor.  This way shifting of the holes is avoided no matter how elongated by the wear they are. Then You can prepare bushes on the lathe with the proper size for the holes.

What is the condition of the pivots? In cheap clocks, the arbors are soft and burnishing doesn't help much when pivots are worn. Then repivoting with pivot wire is practiced rather than reshaping the worn pivots.

 

Thank you. It is the first clock I've ever worked on. The pivots look ok on first glance but I'll have to do a proper cleaning  first and assess after that. I'll use your suggested conductor method!

[Neverenoughwatches]

16 hours ago, mbwatch said:

Learned a new term! Thank you. I have seen these in American dollar pocket watches too, Ingersoll and Ingraham in particular, which are close relatives of small clocks and alarm clocks. It's good to have a name for them.

Me too,  i was fascinated by them in the Wesclox Pocket Ben I did last year, just pins set into a round table.

[rjenkinsgb]

18 hours ago, oldhippy said:

Here is a photo of what is called a lantern pinion.

I was curious when I was younger about why small gears were called "Pinions", until I saw the early pin or dowel style construction - probably in articles or documentaries about windmills, rather than clocks. Then it made sense that they were originally the small gears made with pins vs. teeth.

Until I joined this site I'd not heard the name "Lantern pinion" though, which is very appropriate.

[watchweasol]

The bits that make up lantern pinions are top cap ,  bottom cap and trundles , the name given to the rods which form the lantern. These rods or trundles wear but can be removed and replaced individually to effect a repair. I have seen some almost worn through which have been turned round in the frame to present the unworn side as a repair. It works but not for long.

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, rjenkinsgb said:

I was curious when I was younger about why small gears were called "Pinions", until I saw the early pin or dowel style construction - probably in articles or documentaries about windmills, rather than clocks. Then it made sense that they were originally the small gears made with pins vs. teeth.

Until I joined this site I'd not heard the name "Lantern pinion" though, which is very appropriate.

i figured exactly the same Rob when saw them on the westclox, i think I remarked the same comment to MB who I was in discussion with at the time.

Haha it was actually our conversation Rob.

19 minutes ago, watchweasol said:

The bits that make up lantern pinions are top cap ,  bottom cap and trundles , the name given to the rods which form the lantern. These rods or trundles wear but can be removed and replaced individually to effect a repair. I have seen some almost worn through which have been turned round in the frame to present the unworn side as a repair. It works but not for long.

Haha another revelation WW.  "trundles" .........- to trundle along - ....walk slowly.   The forum is on fire today with the history of pinions .

[oldhippy]

These are not easy clocks the striking mechanism can be a bugger to sort and get right. That is if you decide to take the movement apart. This will help you to understand the strike. Never use motorized tools on any clock as you have very little control and before you know it the damage is done always use hand tool only you have full control. The movement is made up of brass and steel both are quite soft.

 

Levers-2 (1).pdf

[watchweasol]

A good document Old Hippy,  David La Bounty from the NAWCC has written a few articles in thr Jounnal on the lever set up

[caseback]

The pivots need work, so I'm experimenting a bit with steady rests.

Edited April 12 by caseback

[Dell]

11 hours ago, caseback said:

The pivots need work, so I'm experimenting a bit with steady rests.

I use that sort of setup quite often even had to do it on my Myford when I was restoring my Pultra.

Dell

Also had to make a tool rest for it picture is before finished.

[caseback]

10 minutes ago, Dell said:

Also had to make a tool rest for it

I will have to do that as well. My first setup won't let me support close to a larger wheel. No problem. I enjoy making tools as much as working on watches.

[Dell]

Caseback

I am like you I like making something to repair something especially if the tool I make makes life easier & even better if it’s available commercially as it saves me money.

Dell