Bad Previous Repairs

[SwissSeiko]

I've seen many bad repairs in my day, but this one takes the cake. For an Elgin full plate movement, these have a very beautiful pallet fork. As you can see, this is a very incorrect pallet fork, and homemade. What have you guys seen for bad repairs?

[Kalanag]

Isn’t it a genious way to get the watch running again by investing just knowledge, skills and labour time?

It would be very interesting to hear about the time and circumstances of this repair.

Edited Sunday at 01:54 PM by Kalanag

[RichardHarris123]

5 minutes ago, Kalanag said:

Isn’t it a genious way to get the watch running again by investing just knowledge, skills and labour time?

It would be very interesting to hear about the time and circumstances of this repair.

Fair point, it maybe not elegant but did it work?

[nickelsilver]

Just had in a very nice thin Patek pocketwatch. Came in for a staff; found out it had a random staff installed along with a random roller table- it didn't even engage with the fork. And best of all, a tooth was broken off the escape wheel.

 

It was extremely lucky that I had an escape wheel in my stock that was the correct diameter, also found a roller table that was able to be modifed and work very well with the fork, and made a new staff. Darn thing runs great now- around 270 flat, 30 degree drop in verts.

 

At least the former watchmaker did no permanent modifications.

[caseback]

2 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

At least the former watchmaker did no permanent modifications.

Thank the maker (to quote C3PO) for small favours..

[mbwatch]

1 hour ago, caseback said:

Thank the maker (to quote C3PO) for small favours..

Ha! But Luke really should have disassembled him rather than dunking him straight into the ultrasonic.

[oldhippy]

Idiots going made with solder, clock weights of the wrong size to get the clock to work. bad re-bushing such as protruding bush because the pivot has worn or broken, pallets bent to get the thing to escape. All this and more I have found in clocks. I would like to hit the buggers over the head with a rubber mallet.   

[watchweasol]

The worst I had was a A.zd.Mougin French clock where the anchor pivot had broken off, so they build up the pivot hole area with solder cut a hole in it for the shaft remainder and put the anchor back using the solder as a bearing for the shaft n not surprisingly it did not work for long. Bit of a mess to clean up. I have had others but this was a bit rough.

[SwissSeiko]

10 hours ago, Kalanag said:

Isn’t it a genious way to get the watch running again by investing just knowledge, skills and labour time?

It would be very interesting to hear about the time and circumstances of this repair.

It ticks. But doesn't get a read on the timegrapher

[rehajm]

…that pallet fork is quite something. It looks like the little plastic pin pallet thing inside Bradley Mickeys with bfg movements…

[nickelsilver]

One I just finished today, L. Audemars pocket minute repeater with chronograph. The case is in great shape, so I'm laying the destruction at the hands of the last watchmaker. I think they clamped it tightly in a movement holder and squeezed the hammers, but still kind of a mystery. Maybe the bare movement hit the floor?

 

The damage:

New arbors both hammers (both pivots gone on both- the plate pivots are like 0.60mm)
New lift pin one hammer
New bridge jewels both hammers
New weight repeater escapement fork
New banking pin for repeater escapement eccentric
Repivot 4th wheel (3.70mm long)
New staff

 

I managed to get jewels in the original rub-in settings, so overall I doubt anyone down the line (except you guys) will ever know. Beautifully made watch.

[mbwatch]

6 minutes ago, nickelsilver said:

One I just finished today, L. Audemars pocket minute repeater with chronograph.

The fact that your shop's ho-hum-workaday-off-to-the-rat-race watches are Audemars minute repeaters and Patek pocket watches - I cannot comprehend.

[nickelsilver]

13 minutes ago, mbwatch said:

The fact that your shop's ho-hum-workaday-off-to-the-rat-race watches are Audemars minute repeaters and Patek pocket watches - I cannot comprehend.

Ha, and barely anyone knows I exist! Mostly I do prototype/ short run production work. But next in line of "interesting" work, need to make a pallet fork for a little PP (it also needs a staff, someone cobbled in another but had to glue the roller table- off center, oh, and a new fork cock, another cobble job) , and another PP that needs the Geneva stripes redone. Both due to previous watchmakers too .

[SwissSeiko]

Well boys, it appears I have made a mistake! This appears to be the correct pallet fork! My experience with these older Elgin's, they always have an elegant pallet fork. This one appears to be from the factory this way, which is interesting considering its a 17 jewel movement. Hopefully I don't lose any reputation for this mistake. It just appeared very unlike Elgin to use such a pallet fork.

[mbwatch]

2 minutes ago, SwissSeiko said:

This appears to be the correct pallet fork! My experience with these older Elgin's, they always have an elegant pallet fork.

What is the grade, I'm curious? If it is older than 1880-ish then I wouldn't be too surprised to see something on the uglier side. Though 17j on a really old grade wouldn't be too common.

[SwissSeiko]

2 minutes ago, mbwatch said:

What is the grade, I'm curious? If it is older than 1880-ish then I wouldn't be too surprised to see something on the uglier side. Though 17j on a really old grade wouldn't be too common.

Its a 335 model 4

[mbwatch]

2 minutes ago, SwissSeiko said:

Its a 335 model 4

Wow, late for a full plate then. Maybe they gave up on the fancy parts after 1900 when their production was amped way up.

[nickelsilver]

16 minutes ago, SwissSeiko said:

Well boys, it appears I have made a mistake! This appears to be the correct pallet fork! My experience with these older Elgin's, they always have an elegant pallet fork. This one appears to be from the factory this way, which is interesting considering its a 17 jewel movement. Hopefully I don't lose any reputation for this mistake. It just appeared very unlike Elgin to use such a pallet fork.

I remembered seeing some forks with this kindergarten design, but couldn't remember which makers did them. At least the pallet jewels are in "correctly", and not in slits 180 degrees around- those are basically impossible to work on.

It does look like someone had a go at one of the fork horns with a file, possibly because they or another mic-macked the banking pins and decided Elgin put too much metal on the fork, so not sure this fork is viable in its current state.

[JohnR725]

On 4/5/2025 at 5:39 PM, SwissSeiko said:

Elgin full plate movement,

It's hard to help out when you get such a general description like this. Which is why I always ask for photographs model number is oh look we did get a number much much farther down.

1 hour ago, SwissSeiko said:

ts a 335 model 4

One of the problems with early American pocket watches will be lots of parts variations. Your pallet fork is a number four which on the parts list has an X indicating that it has variations. Then the parts book really sucks because it doesn't show the entire pallet fork and yes other than the modifications with file that does look like the right pallet fork.  Oh and of minor confusion on the part book notice the reference to class? Sometime in the mid-20s Elgin change their entire parts system before this they used a class system. So in other words a 335 is equal to a class of 105.

The pallet fork section actually covers several pages with lots and lots of drawings a pallet Forex. On the second page of the section we see another one of those forks were we can see a better example of the entire thing.

2 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

remembered seeing some forks with this kindergarten design

Interesting description for a pallet fork the kindergarten design well I learn something new every day. Plus it could be worse like let's look what Waltham did with their kindergarten design pallet fork

Yes this is one of the 18 size Waltham pocket watches notice how you get the pallet with stones and you get the separate fork? But for quantity a pallet forks there are two of them? That's because the open face in the hunting have the gears arranged in a different fashion and the pallet stones have to be on the right side. So even if you find a donor watch to steal a pallet fork from you may have to disassemble and reassemble it so the stones are in the right direction.

Then I can't remember which company uses two screws to hold the assembly together and that allows you to adjust the depth of the pallet fork. If that wasn't enough things for somebody to screw around with like banking pins you can have more things to screw around with.

[Kalanag]

Edited 5 hours ago by Kalanag