What Are Your Favorite Hairspring And Balance Wheel Tools

[bobm12]

Hi everyone, I've recently was the lucky recipient of a Bergeon studding table:

 

and then the fever started 'cause I saw these but I'm undecided about them ($$$):

 

 

 

I'm reaching out to hear opinions - and see pictures -- of your favorite tools to work on hairsprings and balance wheels...like when you are replacing hairsprings, repairing them and so on...and if by chance you use any of the above tools, to hear about your experience -- and usefulness -- using them.

 

Much appreciated,

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

 

 

[Geo]

Where are your pictures Bob?

[bobm12]

I just "cut and paste"-ed those from the web, Geo. I have the first one and planning to get the other 2 but I'm not very much versed on their use and I wanted to hear from the rest of the gang. I would also like to hear some explanations as how to best use those...not necessarily as balance tools but all inclusive uses and suggestions we can come up with.

 

I hope some pointers, and maybe mini tutorials, may surface in this thread. It would be a good idea to also have "how-to's" on watchmakers tools in addition to actual movements. Some of us -- mainly me -- could use the "training"! :)

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

[JohnR725]

Looking at the picture of the Bergeon studding table Makes me feel really old.  I did learn how to vibrated hairsprings all that nice stuff so we probably use those but can't remember far too long ago.

 

So as you're asking about favorite tools  I've attached  pictures.. Two pictures One a screwdriver this is considered the inappropriate method.  The screwdrivers a wedge shaped  forcing it into the collet spreads it Unnecessarily conceivably if you got really carried away can you could break it  and then the hairspring gets stuck in the screwdriver in any way when you get off.. The second photograph comes from a set of tools made by I think the Elgin watch company.. Somewhere I might have a picture of the rest of the tools perhaps.. But the one in the picture is the most useful..  Recognized by the transparent handle. So it's a flat blade drops into the slot of the collet. Gently turn  in any direction while pulling upwards and hairspring collet rotates comes off easily.

[bobm12]

Awesome John! I'm starting my "journey" through hairspring land so this seems like a good tool to get! I got the table in my picture above, I'm planning on getting the other 2 tools if the need arises! My first sacrificial hairspring will be for an ETA 2840 from a "discarded" and non running Swatch.

 

By the way, if I screw up this ETA hairspring I got new, is there a generic I could use? (maybe I sacrifice the generic first!) Do I have to "modify", vibrate or anything the generic one? How do I find the right specs to order accordingly? If I get a balance complete, do I need any special tool?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

[JohnR725]

Found some better pictures of the hairspring tools. So it comes in a set of five with clear plastic handles and were missing the color coding at the end. Then pictures of the ends of the tools and showing the taper of the tool for rotating the collet.

 

Then when collets don't hold tight enough a tool for closing them.

 

Then totally missed your hairspring question otherwise I would've answered it sooner. Then I'm not sure I quite understand your question ? I looked up the 2840 and it's a swatch which has almost no parts available. I was curious as to whether there's any spare parts the staff is available. So the staff interchanges with a very sizable list all of which except one are running at 28800. So the 2846 is running at the right frequency except it's balance wheel doesn't interchange with anything else? As a guess it probably does interchange with the 2840 it's probably just of a higher grade so it doesn't show is interchangeable with the 2840.

 

Then one of the nice features with the modern balance wheels the floating stud is that allow a lot of room for adjustment. Which means you should be able to interchange the hairsprings from one to another without any problems other than having to just readjust things.

 

http://www.christophlorenz.de/watch/movements/e/eta/eta_2840.php?l=en

 

http://boley.de/en/caliber/watch-movements/eta/4537

[clockboy]

Nice tools I do like good quality tools. However I have used the screwdriver method for years with no issues. 

[bobm12]

Excellent information John, much appreciated!

 

I happen to have the collet closing tool at the bottom of your pictures (same one) but I'd like to get a hold of the others (set of 5 you mentioned). So, the search is on...otherwise I'll be using the screwdriver method, as CB does, when I start on those hairsprings.

 

I was hoping to use a balance complete from a 2801/24/36 version and check if they work. Since for me, this is an experiment right now -- hoping it works and then use it in my own watch -- I'm willing to do many things. Also, it is my first journey in depth with hairsprings...Just learning! My hairspring question was based in simply getting the hairspring -- as ofrei offers them. Just the bare hairspring and fit it to the existing collet and bridge/regulator if you will...I don't know enough about this actually.

 

I understand that there is a whole world of things to do to that operation and I was hoping to get some sort of, at least, a relation of the operations involved, hopefully in order, and the tools needed. Also, how to get the correct bare hairspring...sort of the way we do with mainsprings, by measures/properties. (?)

 

This is a great thread -- for me at least -- thank you for enlighten me and those, like myself, curious about/working on the subject. I'm humbly hoping for more!

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

[mwilkes]

For reshaping hairsprings I use two pairs of Dumont 5/90 tweezers, with moderate success!

 

Edited January 4, 2016 by mwilkes

[bobm12]

Hi M,

 

Are those tips bent naturally or did you bend them? I'm not familiar with the "5/90" denomination, maybe that is my answer! :)

 

I'd love to see some pictures of how to use those...or maybe the bent is a preference?

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

[mwilkes]

No, they come like that! If you google "dumont 5/90" you'll find a bunch of results - they're not cheap!

I find they help me to keep my hairspring tweaks at 90 degrees, which helps a lot

[clockboy]

Here are a couple I use now & again.

 

 

For manipulating the spring up/down. Self made bits the tube turned on my lathe & old tweezers altered.

 

 

 

 

Found these on the Bay a few years ago for general manipulating. 

 

 

These tools are OK for the larger hairsprings but I have found them to cumbersome for the smaller springs or tiny tweets.

[JohnR725]

A tool that I just never quite got around to getting but have used. So liberated picture off the Internet. The reason for something like this is it elevates the hairspring making it easier to see because you're not seeing the shadows of the hairspring when it's on something close.

[JohnR725]

Excellent information John, much appreciated!

 

I happen to have the collet closing tool at the bottom of your pictures (same one) but I'd like to get a hold of the others (set of 5 you mentioned). So, the search is on...otherwise I'll be using the screwdriver method, as CB does, when I start on those hairsprings.

 

I was hoping to use a balance complete from a 2801/24/36 version and check if they work. Since for me, this is an experiment right now -- hoping it works and then use it in my own watch -- I'm willing to do many things. Also, it is my first journey in depth with hairsprings...Just learning! My hairspring question was based in simply getting the hairspring -- as ofrei offers them. Just the bare hairspring and fit it to the existing collet and bridge/regulator if you will...I don't know enough about this actually.

 

I understand that there is a whole world of things to do to that operation and I was hoping to get some sort of, at least, a relation of the operations involved, hopefully in order, and the tools needed. Also, how to get the correct bare hairspring...sort of the way we do with mainsprings, by measures/properties. (?)

 

This is a great thread -- for me at least -- thank you for enlighten me and those, like myself, curious about/working on the subject. I'm humbly hoping for more!

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

 

So what you're really saying is you would like to learn how to vibrated hairspring?  Somewhere else in the discussion group somebody has brought up they have hairspring vibrating tools and they want to know how to use them. I'm beginning to wonder how many times this question comes up?

 

So swapping balance completes and to some degree swapping the modern hairsprings with a floating stud isn't an issue. It's the vibrating part that gets really interesting.

 

Maybe a better thing to do is to start a new discussion I would like the title of insanities of people who want to vibrated hairsprings but I have prior knowledge of vibrating hairsprings which is probably why I use the word insanity or some equivalent. But seeing as how the question keeps coming up it probably should be a separate discussion. So keep this discussion on tools new discussion on vibrating hairsprings otherwise this discussion will go spiral off and because the question keeps coming up it be nice to reference people to a particular discussion somewhere on this group.

 

John

[bobm12]

Good idea John, thanks for the suggestion, it makes a lot of sense...looks like I got carried away with the topic. It is appreciated.

 

It would be great if you want to start the vibration topic as you think best, so it makes more sense to those new to the subject -- me for one, -- and we just continue with the tools here as you suggested. As we have people of all levels, working on hairsprings -- no matter how simple or complicated the job -- both tools and the different tasks they accomplish as well as the "how to" of the said tasks is really important and will take us to a whole different level of complexity in watchmaking.

 

Maybe it would be a good thing to have the topic as part of the walkthrough section or simply as an article somewhere else? I'll be the first avid reader and much grateful for that.

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

[bobm12]

CB, that is a good modification, I would say you put the balance on the cylinder and manipulate the spring with the modified tweezers?

 

Also, those special tweezers you found on ebay, I've seen them by Horotec and they are really expensive, US$106 each new. I was wondering if they were worth the trouble and expense as I have a ton of (11 or 12 ligne movements) with mangled hairsprings. As they came that way in old movements I got cheap, I was planning to work on them. So, I think I'll pass on those tweezers and hopefully modify tools as I go along. Thanks for the heads up!

 

I will be also considering getting the tool John is showing us. I never gave it much thought when I first saw it but now, with his explanation, I think I can use something like that. Might be useful to figure out the right geometry of the hairspring and work it accordingly (?). It can be had in two flavors from ofrei, just as the box says...sometimes he doesn't carry the whole spectrum of the same tool. I'll report back on that one.

[clockboy]

CB, that is a good modification, I would say you put the balance on the cylinder and manipulate the spring with the modified tweezers?

 

Also, those special tweezers you found on ebay, I've seen them by Horotec and they are really expensive, US$106 each new. I was wondering if they were worth the trouble and expense as I have a ton of (11 or 12 ligne movements) with mangled hairsprings. As they came that way in old movements I got cheap, I was planning to work on them. So, I think I'll pass on those tweezers and hopefully modify tools as I go along. Thanks for the heads up!

 

I will be also considering getting the tool John is showing us. I never gave it much thought when I first saw it but now, with his explanation, I think I can use something like that. Might be useful to figure out the right geometry of the hairspring and work it accordingly (?). It can be had in two flavors from ofrei, just as the box says...sometimes he doesn't carry the whole spectrum of the same tool. I'll report back on that one.

They are OK but in my opinion not worth $100. I only use them occasionally on the larger hairsprings such as sometimes found in carriage clocks. For normal tweeks a good pair of fine tweezers & pin seems to work for me. The modified tweezers are used by pushing the spring into the recess of the brass tube to create a overcoil shape or levelling a non straight spring.

[Don]

Interesting thread, Bob. I've just started messing with hairsprings. I don't have levers to remove the collet, but one of the perplxr videos showed removing the collet with two single sided razor blades. Probably the least I've spent on a watch tool, so therefore my current favorite balance tool. [emoji12]

[bobm12]

Fantastic, Don, I've never heard of using blades for hairsprings...it gives another dimension to budgeting considering the staggering prices of some simple tools out there! Do you have a link to the video? Thank you in advance.

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

[Geo]

Interesting thread, Bob. I've just started messing with hairsprings. I don't have levers to remove the collet, but one of the perplxr videos showed removing the collet with two single sided razor blades. Probably the least I've spent on a watch tool, so therefore my current favorite balance tool. [emoji12]

I've used this technique and it works well.

I wouldn't be without single sided razor blades and Stanley blades in my toolbox. They're also great for opening front loaders, razor blade first followed by the thicker Stanley blade is the way to go.

[Don]

So, it turns out that my memory has failed me again. The video actually shows how to use two razor blades to remove the roller table. I have successfully used two blades to remove the hairspring and collet, and if Geo says it works, it must be okay. At the risk of stating the obvious, you'll want to position the balance horizontally, just like if you were using levers, not in the orientation in the video.  In any case, here's a link to the video, which is great, as are pretty much all the perplxr vids.

 

https://youtu.be/yJvEIAAC9Rs?t=1m45s

 

Here's another one showing a modified oiler to remove the collet.

 

https://youtu.be/4EYk787sjAM?t=5m20s

[matabog]

Hello!

So I made myself some sort of back-light for working on hairsprings. I took the top from a Mammut chair from Ikea and put some l.e.d.'s in it. I also got a 10mm plexiglass piece (about 2cm/5cm) and put 3 holes in it (2mm, 2.5mm, 3mm). I think it works great!

 

 

 

Thank you,

Bogdan

[steveorval]

i have only ever used old oilers which i may have to adjust the end to size, as i seem to mainly work on tiny movements they are good where you sometimes have to get in between coils and can be bent easily to get into awkward places

[Bimroy]

Love the topic. I use a modified screwdriver blade that I beat into shape on an anvil and filed to shape to remove hairspring collets. I often use a pair of hand removal levers on the larger ones. I've resized collets using an appropriate stake on the staking set. (carefully carefully).

I've had to reshape a few hairsprings too. I use very fine brass tweezers that I get from a bloke on eBay (kidbobblehead). Very nice Italian made product and at a good price.

[MrRoundel]

OK, that razor blade trick for removing roller tables was slick. Prior to that lesson in technique, I was struggling over how I was going to remove the roller on an Wittnauer 11 KAS-2. And that was after struggling to remove the HS safely, for which I used stoned down small screwdrivers from opposing side. This balance has the three angled spokes so I couldn't use the small side of my duplex roller remover. The cheap scissor type of remover was no help.

I ended up just placing the balance in the tapered opening in my bench block and essentially scissored the roller off by slightly crossing the back of the opposing blades while pressing down with my  LH index finger, and squeezing the front edges together with my right hand. The ball of Rodico on the staff surely saved me from an all-fours search and rescue. Thanks, folks. Cheers.