Help with a "New to me" clock

[Bill3]

Last week while strolling through a flea market, on impulse, I bought a clock.  The owner said it "worked perfectly".  I have not been able to get it to run longer than a few minutes.  I have two questions that I hope the wisdom of this group can help me with.  First what kind of clock is it and second how can I get it to run?  As an adjunct to the first question, did I pay too much for it?  I paid $50.  I suspect that it is of Korean or Chinese origin, but there are no marks, lettering, or symbols on the case or the mechanism.  

When I hung the clock on the wall and started the pendulum, it would run for 1 & 1/2 minutes.  Then I read about the phenomenon of getting the clock in beat.  In one of the pictures you can see the post it notes in the back of the case where I was marking the position of the pendulum at rest.  At first both the tick and tock were on one side of the center, but by bending the wire that connects the pendulum to the pallet, I got the tick on one side of the center and the tock on the other.  They are at approximately equal distances from the center.  I had adjusted the case into a plumb position before I started this maneuver.  After these adjustments, the clock ran for 8 minutes, but no longer.  I have checked and the pendulum is not rubbing on the case or anything else.  The clock is wound.  The hands are not touching each other or the dial.  The tick sounds normal, but the tock is a split sound made up of two or three separate sounds.  

I am out of ideas about what to do next.  Anyone have any suggestions about how to get this clock two runs?  

 

 

[StuartBaker104]

With the hands on the clock are you able to move the minute hand forward and get the strike to run through a full cycle? Don't force anything and don't try moving the hands backwards past a strike point.

Sometimes the strike mechanism can get caught jamming the movement.

[Bill3]

Thank you, Stuart.  When the hands are advanced the clock chimes appropriately. When the clock is running, I can look into the mechanism and I cannot see anything rubbing or jamming.  

That is a good thought though.

[oldhippy]

Bill could you take closer pictures for me front and back please. Just looking it is not very old and the movement has what we call rack striking, I should think looking at the two springs it is an 8 day wall clock, the hands are moon style.

[Bill3]

Oldhippy,

Thank you for your comments about my clock.  You asked for front and back pictures.  The back of this clock is wooden and I will have to remove it from the case to get a back picture.  Of course, I will if it is necessary to solve the problem, but I was hoping that it could be solved without that step.  So, I have provided a picture of the front, and one from the right and left lateral view.  

If you think it is necessary to remove it after you see these pictures, just let me know and I will set to work on that.  

Thanks again for your help.

Bill

 

[oldhippy]

Bill, it looks like the movement is very dry so I have found a video that shows you what you should do, apart from one thing no matter what he says do not oil the pinions, I don't think your clock has the type of pinions his movement has. You will need to take the movement right out of the case to do it properly, just unscrew the philips type screws and the movement will then be free of the case, also put a little oil on the rack that is the part with a lot of what look like teeth on it and also the gathering pallet pin, that's the small pin that engages the rack. Don't use any oil get a good clock oil I recommend  Windles Clock Oil you should find it on the internet, while your at it get an oilier the thickest watch oilier is best you can use a small paint brush for the springs.

 

Edited April 16, 2016 by oldhippy

[Bill3]

Oldhippy, 

Thank you so much.  I have watched the video a couple of times and am on my way to remove the mechanism from the case.  As it happens, I have some clock oil, so I will oil it as soon as it is out of the case.  

While it is out of the case I will make more pictures including one of the back of the mechanism, which you asked for earlier.  I did not know that it was so easy to remove the clock from the case.  

As I mentioned earlier I have found no names or brands on the clock.  Perhaps I will find a mark on the  back of the mechanism.  

Best regards,

Bill

 

[Bill3]

Oldhippy,

Amazing!! I removed the movement, oiled the pivots, springs, but not the pinions.  I made some photographs of the back and sides of the movement then reinstalled it.  When I hung ti on the wall, even before I installed the pendulum, it started running.  I installed the pendulum and after it ran for 45 minutes I reinstalled the dial and hands.  It is still running after more than an hour and a half!  If you have read any of my prior posts about all the failures I have had with watches I have worked on you can see why I regard this as something of a minor miracle.  

I was surprised that I did not find any identifying marks on the back of the movement, like China or Korea.  All I found was a number, 4770, inconspicuously placed on the front of the movement and the numbers 83/2 on the ends of both springs.  

I have included the pictures that I could not get before.  I really want to make sure that you understand how much I appreciate the help you provided to make my first success in horological effort possible.  

Best regards,

Bill

[oldhippy]

That's a bit of luck that it has started to tick, the photos that you have shows its not dirt if anything it looks quite clean, is it nice and level on the wall. The pictures are good and I think its Korean or from around that part of the world.  The big problem will be there not made of good brass or steel and with such powerful springs you will get a lot of wear and tear so make sure its well oiled if all is well this time do it again in about 1 year, or at least have a look.

[Bill3]

If it is not one thing, then it is another!

With the great help from Oldhippy, I got the clock to run yesterday and it is still running well.  However, I cannot get the chime to cooperate.  The clock chimes, but it sounds a single note on the half hour and chimes the hour on the half.  I tried to fix the problem by waiting until the minute hand crossed 12 and the single chime had sounded, then I rapidly whirled the minute hand around past the 6 not stopping there or giving it time to chime.  Then I parked the minute hand in front of the 12 and waited, but every time I do that I still get only one chime.  

What approach to try now?

[SteveFitzwater]

Check your hands, they could be on incorrectly, if it is chiming on the 1/2 hr, simply re-orient the minute hand so it is point at 12 when it was previously pointing at 6

[petevig]

+1 SteveFitzwater.  I have a similar wall clock with the same movement (I think).  The minute hand has either a square or is slotted which should allow you to re-install it 180 from its present position.  The other option is to "trick" the movement by forcing it to trip the gear works that operate on the hour and half hour.  I would simply flip the hand.

 

BTW, mine, as I said is very similar with a pair of massive springs for the time train and chimes, and is good for 30 plus days with a full winding.  Since you are not able to do a proper lube of the springs (nor was I), be prepared to hear some bit of slippage as they unwind, which can be (and is) a bit unnerving, especially in the quiet of the evening/morning hours.  Also know that the escapement (at least it is so on mine) can be extremely loud.  I'm taking across the room and down the hall loud.  I ended up putting rubber pads to deaden the sound some underneath the four feet where it screws into the case  ........and it's still loud.

 

 

[Bill3]

I flipped the minute hand and all is well again!  Thanks Steve.  What an idiot I am not to think of that.  I was thinking of all sorts of complicated reasons that could explain the chime being reversed.  

[SteveFitzwater]

well if your like me, you will never forget that lesson, happens to all of us when we are starting out

[oldhippy]

If the hands are not in line with the strike or chimes never move the hands quickly as this can jam up the strike,chime and the hand could snap off, when moving the hand move it from its center, when it strikes or chimes reset the hands by taking them off and resetting. This type of movement is noisy and you often hear the springs expanding and you hear the strike wheels rotating also the minute wheel is slack so the clock won't strike or chime right on the hour but just before or just after, from 12 down to 6 the hand will drop a little forward and from 6 to 12 the hand will drop a little back.

[vinn3]

good show. id say you got your money's  worth just in entertainment.  the best thing is you could now  recognize a better  clock movment,  and you can safely  install or remove the  mvt..  "onward",  there are several good books on "clock repair".   later Vinn

[Bill3]

Vinn3,

Thank you for your interest.  That clock is still running and after some minor adjustments to the pendulum, it keeps very goog time.  The only thing more amazing than that clock starting to run was the friendly reception I received on this forum and the incredible help I was offered.  

Seeing the clock start to run was like seeing a heart start to beat, life returning to the movement.  It was exciting.  I have caught the bug!  In fact I have been reading books about clock repair and have bought another clock.  I have been working on this one and as soon as I can make some decent pictures, I plan to post a question about the movement.  

Best regards,

Bill

 

[oldhippy]

I can't wait to see your next project that you have bought.