Chinese Timegraphers

[jdm]

I am looking to get a new cheap timegrpaher, I am just a hobbist and I would like to get one useful piece at a low cost since I am from Argentina and the argentinian peso is really devaluated. 

For real savings, and no issues with Aduanas, I recommend that you try a software application first. You only need to get a good mic.

Edited June 17, 2017 by jdm

[PJA]

Hello there. I have a question about readout / operation of my timegrapher. 

1. I've tested about 15 quartz watches (new and old), and amplitude on all read either 176° or 175°. My question is whether this is the highest reading for quartz watches in contrary to 270° on mechanical watches, or is there something wrong? I've tried to search google and not much info about it.
2. When it starts in Auto mode with quartz watches it always starts with 12000 (parameters) and doesn't adjust automatically, so I have manually to dial it up to 3600 in order to get it to read properly, (with the very few mechanical watches so far it adjust itself). Is this the way it should work, or something wrong with it?
3. I've found that some quartz watches like small ladies watches and sports watches, don't give readings even though I tried pushing the watch toward the sensor, for whatever reason the reading is too weak or something?

Thanks for your help.

[JohnR725]

Which timing machine are you using?

Then you can't get an answer to your question as it's an invalid question.  Unless a course I am totally misunderstanding your question then it may be a valid question. So first Link talks about mechanical watch testing And it explains how amplitude is measured. Quartz watches can be found in the second link. Unless of course and there were a few of these there were some quartz watches with a balance wheel. But as the balance wheel isn't driven by the escapement for the most part there may be an exception to that you have no way of measuring the amplitude. It is possible the timing machine is picking up the width of the stepping motor pulse confusing that with what it needs to pick up for amplitude and giving you a number.

So typically a timing machine for quartz watches is entirely different than a mechanical watch timing machine. Although you can get timing machines that will do both.

Then the problem with the ladies watches or any quartz watch without a second hand is that it does not step once per second. Especially on the ladies watches to save power they will step at a much longer time interval.

 

http://www.witschi.com/assets/files/sheets/Test and measuring technology mechanical watches.pdf

http://www.witschi.com/assets/files/sheets/Knowledge Quartz Watch.pdf

 

[PJA]

22 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

Which timing machine are you using?

Then you can't get an answer to your question as it's an invalid question.  Unless a course I am totally misunderstanding your question then it may be a valid question. So first Link talks about mechanical watch testing And it explains how amplitude is measured. Quartz watches can be found in the second link. Unless of course and there were a few of these there were some quartz watches with a balance wheel. But as the balance wheel isn't driven by the escapement for the most part there may be an exception to that you have no way of measuring the amplitude. It is possible the timing machine is picking up the width of the stepping motor pulse confusing that with what it needs to pick up for amplitude and giving you a number.

So typically a timing machine for quartz watches is entirely different than a mechanical watch timing machine. Although you can get timing machines that will do both.

Then the problem with the ladies watches or any quartz watch without a second hand is that it does not step once per second. Especially on the ladies watches to save power they will step at a much longer time interval.

 

http://www.witschi.com/assets/files/sheets/Test and measuring technology mechanical watches.pdf

http://www.witschi.com/assets/files/sheets/Knowledge Quartz Watch.pdf

 

Many thanks for the information.

 I am using the Weishi (made in China) machine.

I've also found this info for those who may be interested.

 

[ecodec]

Hi Bill3 ,  I had a Timegrapher 1000 and returned it because of a fault.  I then purchased the 1900 model and I think that it is excellent. It does everything I require and performs very well.  Great value for money.  Nice for setting the Beat Error, Regulating and checking amplitude etc. The problem for me is not the Timegrapher , it is the old worn watches Ha Ha !!. Yes, get one. You will be pleased.

[Richard1888]

Can anyone recommend a beginners timegrapher that is worthwhile?

Something in the £100 to £125 range, or cheaper if it is worth buying.

 

Xmas is coming up and I am thinking of suggesting that the family chip in and get me one.

[Ishima]

When it came time for me to buy mine I just went on to ebay and got one of many basic timegraphers sold there, believe my model is the no.1000, which looks to be 120, so pretty slap bang in your range.

It works well, has decent build quality, it measures rate, amplitude and beat error, and has a mute so you dont have to hear it tick, a pause function and some other more advanced options such as manual paramater settings and lift angle settings. 

I have no complaints. 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Timegrapher-Watch-Timing-Machine-Multifunction-Tester-NO-1000-CE-UK-Shipping/301966015167?epid=909412595&hash=item464e93babf:g:whIAAOSwOdpXy~QE

[JohnR725]

For the price range you have The 1000 is the only thing that will come in that price range as mentioned above. If you have a little more money  I think the  LCD display is a little nicer on the 1900.. Unfortunately the cost is a little more looks like approximately £150 and shipping doesn't appear to be  included. Then for eBay do a search for either machine  there does seem to be quite a price variation..

[frenchie]

Another vote for the 1000. Got mine for $160 if I remember correctly, just about 120 pounds. Very happy with it.

[Michael]

I purchased my 1000 from ebay for the cheapest I could find. Came direct from China. It gets my vote ...

[jdm]

For Chinese items it's always better to look on Aliexpress before Ebay. For example, a 1000 is currently priced about 130 USD shipped. 

Edited November 12, 2017 by jdm

[SSTEEL]

I echo whats been suggested, the 1000 is best for starting out.

[jdm]

I had a 1000, and when upgraded to a 1900 which as mentioned has a much better display worth the price difference, I had no problem in selling for about the same price.

[Tudor]

Hey guys.

 

I'm looking into a timegrapher. Currently I time my watches the old-fashioned way (time them against my iPhone stopwatch, or overnight) and I'd like a faster way, as I MAY branch out to servicing movemnts for others. I'd like to check all the normal positions and the overnight test method, while accurate, is frankly a PITA. I'm sure one of the eBay specials are fine for my needs, but I see they offer several models (1000, 1500 etc.)  and I'm having a hard time seeing the differences between them.

basically, is it a waste of money for a "fancier" (higher number) model or are there real advantages to "paying now" rather than "paying more later"?

I work with ETA's (and variants) so, Tudor, Omega (so co-axial escapement may be an issue?) and Rolex. I may get into some older stuff but I think they have beat rates and lift angles well covered, from what I read on the various seller's listings. I'd love to get a Seiko high-beat (or another brand) because of that S M O O T H sweep... Mesmerizing...

So I guess I'm asking from either an owner, or others looking's perspective, what features do you find are "essential" and what can you live without/don't care about? Do you own a "1000" for example and wish you bought a "higher" model? Did you buy the "higher" model and realize you don't need the added features (whatever they are)?

Thanks to all.

[JohnR725]

For most people the 1000 or 1900 which is a little nicer screen and a couple of other features is perfectly suitable. The Chinese machines are interesting in that for the most part there aren't really additional features with more money. Basically the screen size layout changes. If you want additional features you have to go to the Swiss like witschi. So when you go to machine made by witschi the price goes up considerably so does the quality it's basically a professional instrument and it does have lots of other features.

I put links below the ace timer according to the list will do the co-axial escapement . But the slightly used ace time or I picked up off of eBay doesn't appear to have any way to do that? Then for a witschi their watch expert now in the fourth generation is usually the least expensive machine. Don't know what the current price is but typically around $3000. So with which either getting a professional machine designed the run every single day in a shop as it definite quality difference at least with the microphone. But there is that really huge price difference. So links below so you can compare the specifications.

http://www.acetimer.com/Watch-and-Pocket-Watch-Timing-Machine-Multifunction-Timegrapher-1000.html

https://www.witschi.com/en/group-of-devices/measurement-of-mechanical-watches/watch-expert/watch-expert.html

 

[jdm]

There are various threads about timegrapheres if you take the time to use the search function. I will pin up the best one as that's a FAQ.

I definitely recommend the 1900 over the 1000.

[clockboy]

I purchased the 1900 after some research. I would if room and the money go for software based system such as the Graham Baxter system because it can be used for clocks as well as watches. I think Mark has a vid on this very subject.

 

[Tudor]

5 hours ago, jdm said:

There are various threads about timegrapheres if you take the time to use the search function. I will pin up the best one as that's a FAQ.

I definitely recommend the 1900 over the 1000.

Hmmm... the very first thing I did was put “timegrapher “ in the search box and came up with nothing, expecting a flood to dig through. 

I am on a few boards, mod at one so I know the score. 

I appreciate the links and will take a look. 

[jdm]

1 hour ago, Tudor said:

Hmmm... the very first thing I did was put “timegrapher “ in the search box and came up with nothing, expecting a flood to dig through.  

Maybe something with the search options. Comprehensive topic now pinned. 

[Tudor]

9 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

For most people the 1000 or 1900 which is a little nicer screen and a couple of other features is perfectly suitable. The Chinese machines are interesting in that for the most part there aren't really additional features with more money. Basically the screen size layout changes. If you want additional features you have to go to the Swiss like witschi. So when you go to machine made by witschi the price goes up considerably so does the quality it's basically a professional instrument and it does have lots of other features.

I put links below the ace timer according to the list will do the co-axial escapement . But the slightly used ace time or I picked up off of eBay doesn't appear to have any way to do that? Then for a witschi their watch expert now in the fourth generation is usually the least expensive machine. Don't know what the current price is but typically around $3000. So with which either getting a professional machine designed the run every single day in a shop as it definite quality difference at least with the microphone. But there is that really huge price difference. So links below so you can compare the specifications.

http://www.acetimer.com/Watch-and-Pocket-Watch-Timing-Machine-Multifunction-Timegrapher-1000.html

https://www.witschi.com/en/group-of-devices/measurement-of-mechanical-watches/watch-expert/watch-expert.html

 

Thank you John, I appreciate the links. I can't justify the significant expense for a "pro" machine, based on the hours of use it will actually receive. I can replace the cheap one several times before I am at the price point.

I guess if it's a matter of accuracy, the investment is worth it to me. But, although I see a calibration port, I have no idea how to actually calibrate it... (I see no calibration tools out there) With regards to cheap measurement tools, as long as I can confirm the accuracy/repeatability I'm good. If a $10 tool can be calibrated to do the job, I'm good. Conversely, if I can't rely on (or confirm) the "cheap" tool, I am not afraid to spend a bit. (I have about four billion dollars in Snap-On automotive tools spanning three generations).

5 hours ago, clockboy said:

I purchased the 1900 after some research. I would if room and the money go for software based system such as the Graham Baxter system because it can be used for clocks as well as watches. I think Mark has a vid on this very subject.

 

This didn't even dawn on me... PCs are dirt cheap. Get software and a good mic/stand... Looking into this now! Thank you!

 

 

[Tudor]

1 hour ago, jdm said:

Maybe something with the search options. Comprehensive topic now pinned. 

Yeah, I thought it was odd too- I expected to find a ton on that subject.

I will try again and look around. Although I've received good replies here, I'll compile more data.

PS Thank you for not flaming me!

[bsoderling]

Hi,

I’m a bit surprised not more people use and discuss this Iphone/Ipad app. The only weak point I find is the mic (uses the regular headset mic) that can be a bit fiddly to place where you want it.

Apart from that it gives all the information I need in a very similar graphics format as the chinese tabletop versions at a fraction of the cost.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Tudor]

I actually have this ap and I’ve never got it to work well for me. 

So then I don’t know if it’s a mic problem or movement problem...

[bsoderling]

Sorry to hear that...

I primarily use it on the open movement, not so much on closed up watches where the sensitivity of the mic can be an issue.

And I make sure to place the mic right over the pallet fork/escapement area where the sound is created. A bit fiddling with the sensitivity and filter usually gives me workable data for adjustment of rate, beat and amplitude.

I have been thinking of sourcing/building an alternative mic but never got that far. Would be interesting to hear if anyone out there made any such attempts for this app.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Tudor]

A better mic would probably help. After your post I updated my ap but it didn’t seem to help a lot. I was working with the watch I had on- ‘76 9411 blue dial. 

Maybe it’s working but generally a watch that graphs like a shotgun blast doesn’t run well and this does. 

Maybe I’ll try a different watch tomorrow and see if it’s any better.