How do I tighten an Omega centre wheel cannon pinion ?

[mikepilk]

I have an Omega 1010 which has a cente wheel + cannon pinion as one piece.

It was just about seized, but after cleaning and 'exercising' it a bit, it's now too loose.

Is the adjustment the same as a normal cannon pinion - using the staking set to put a nick on the side?

I've never had to do this, and I'm a bit worried as the wall of the pinion looks thick.

[rogart63]

16 hours ago, mikepilk said:

I have an Omega 1010 which has a cente wheel + cannon pinion as one piece.

It was just about seized, but after cleaning and 'exercising' it a bit, it's now too loose.

Is the adjustment the same as a normal cannon pinion - using the staking set to put a nick on the side?

I've never had to do this, and I'm a bit worried as the wall of the pinion looks thick.

Check with @noirrac1j i think he is the master of Omega 1010 and similar  

And if i remember correctly the wall is not very that thick?The inner pivot is a little larger to? But it's very tricky to get the right amount of slippage?

[anilv]

Hi Mike,

I believe that on this models the canon pinion needs to be more on the loose side rather than too tight. When setting time they 'feel' like there's no friction in the canon pinion but it works fine.

You may want to re-assemble it as is and see how it works before proceeding to tighten it up.

Anilv

[mikepilk]

14 hours ago, anilv said:

Hi Mike,

I believe that on this models the canon pinion needs to be more on the loose side rather than too tight. When setting time they 'feel' like there's no friction in the canon pinion but it works fine.

You may want to re-assemble it as is and see how it works before proceeding to tighten it up.

Anilv

I think it needs a bit of tightening. The figures on the timing machine looked good, and after wearing it for half a day, the second hand was where it should be, but I'd lost 2 minutes from the minute hand. 

Edited March 1, 2017 by mikepilk

[anilv]

Hi Mike.

That may show a problem with the canon pinion. But if it consistently shows a two minute loss then you need to look deeper.

Try hitting the watch edge on with your hand. Does the minute hand move? 

Also a loose minute hand will show similar symptoms.. Anilvlv

 

[mikepilk]

17 hours ago, anilv said:

Hi Mike.

That may show a problem with the canon pinion. But if it consistently shows a two minute loss then you need to look deeper.

Try hitting the watch edge on with your hand. Does the minute hand move? 

Also a loose minute hand will show similar symptoms.. Anilvlv

 

The minute hand is a bit loose, but the cannon pinion does feel very loose too.

I'm hoping @noirrac1j can give me some guidance as to how it should be

[noirrac1j]

3 hours ago, mikepilk said:

The minute hand is a bit loose, but the cannon pinion does feel very loose too.

I'm hoping @noirrac1j can give me some guidance as to how it should be

Hello @mikepilk!

Trouble with Omega cannon pinions are among the most frustrating things I've dealt with. Just have a few questions before I give suggestions:

1) You said the cannon pinion was seized: Was it from a movement that showed signs of water damage? I am guessing you loosened it mechanically after soaking or something? 

2) The watch hands: Are they original to the watch (as fas as you know), and does the minute hand sit snugly on the minute wheel shaft or is there some play?

3) If you observe the watch (faceup on a table) carefully throughout an hour, is there a specific point at which it loses time consistently? example: runs fine but loses time after 3:15, and if reset immediately upon noticing time loss, will keep time until 4:15 and lose time again.

 

Ok I am just going to assume it is the cannon pinion because you said it was seized and now it isn't, but @anilv has a point about the minute hand. If the problem is there the time loss will occur erratically and not at specific times. Through lots of trial and error, I will suggest he following if you want to try to tighten this Omega 1010 cannon pinion. Oh yeah, did you look up the cost of a replacement? I can give you the info of a material house that carries it for about 50 dollars....just as reference!

You'll need a cannon pinion tightening tool 

so that you can place a small diameter broaching pin or some other suitable thin object though the cannon pinion tube to prevent it from crushing it beyond repair. 

. and give it a gentle tap just as with a staking set. If you don't have this tool, then give a very gentle tap and test each time you do so to minimize overtightening.

J

Edited March 3, 2017 by noirrac1j

[mikepilk]

Thanks for the comprehensive reply @noirrac1j

The movement had water damage, I ended up changing a lot of parts.

The cannon pinion was very stiff until I cleaned it and moved it manually. Now I can feel very little resistance.

 I guess some material has been lost as rust.

The minute hand was quite loose - I tightened it up today. I'll try that before messing with the cannon pinnion.

BTW this is the same watch you kindly offered me the date change wheel for.

I ended up buying a new dial from India for about $30. They're sold on ebay as 'repainted'. I have to say that they look amazing - hard to tell from an original.

[noirrac1j]

That dial does indeed look very very good, as the does entire watch. Is that band also Omega? Its great!

Getting back to the cannon pinion--If rust is the problem, and it sounds like it was, then that would have dissolved some of the inner surface. When you worked it loosed, that caused oxidized metal to just wash away and that caused the problem. I would suggest you replace it, but If you want to try to fix the cannon pinion as an exercise that's fine too. I went through the same problem with a different part in this watch:

and in the end, the part did have to be replaced with new at almost the price I paid for the entire non-working watch. It was still a great bargain, but you already know the deal with Omega parts. If you can buy the part new that's your best bet, if  a donor watch or a used replacement is available at a good price I'd grab it.  Let me know if you have trouble finding that cannon pinion, I'll give the info on that material house that has it.

J

 

Edited March 3, 2017 by noirrac1j

[mikepilk]

I think I might have actually fixed it. I'll wear it tomorrow for a final test.

It appears that getting the cannon pinion friction correct is critical on this movement. So much so that  "omega say to replace the cannon pinion rather than service it, you were not even suppose to put it through a cleaner but use rodico to clean it".

Surprisingly the cannon pinion was both too tight, and too loose ! 

Let me explain - The minute hand was losing a minute or two due to looseness of the cannon pinion. But also when setting the hands, the intermediate wheel would slip in some positions due to too much friction.

I did some research and found that it's easy to remove the cannon pinion :  "Place the cannon pinion flat on the bench, a strong pair of tweezers with the jaws placed placed either side of the pinion teeth on the flat wheel, hold this firmly then with tweezers grip the cannon pinion and pull it straight up".

I could see some rust which was causing it to stick in some places, and be too loose in others. Once cleaned and lubricated, all seems OK. The pinion moves smoothly but with a slight friction. The hands set nicely, and (so far) move correctly.

I agree with comments that this is not Omegas finest movement - less robust than previous models, especially on the dial side. I have a Cal 565 which seems much more sturdy.

[noirrac1j]

6 hours ago, mikepilk said:

I think I might have actually fixed it. I'll wear it tomorrow for a final test.

It appears that getting the cannon pinion friction correct is critical on this movement. So much so that  "omega say to replace the cannon pinion rather than service it, you were not even suppose to put it through a cleaner but use rodico to clean it".

Surprisingly the cannon pinion was both too tight, and too loose ! 

Let me explain - The minute hand was losing a minute or two due to looseness of the cannon pinion. But also when setting the hands, the intermediate wheel would slip in some positions due to too much friction.

I did some research and found that it's easy to remove the cannon pinion :  "Place the cannon pinion flat on the bench, a strong pair of tweezers with the jaws placed placed either side of the pinion teeth on the flat wheel, hold this firmly then with tweezers grip the cannon pinion and pull it straight up".

I could see some rust which was causing it to stick in some places, and be too loose in others. Once cleaned and lubricated, all seems OK. The pinion moves smoothly but with a slight friction. The hands set nicely, and (so far) move correctly.

I agree with comments that this is not Omegas finest movement - less robust than previous models, especially on the dial side. I have a Cal 565 which seems much more sturdy.

A+ my man! I looked this part up on two material houses' websites and did not see a separate number for the cannon pinion so I thought it was indeed a one-piece unit. You're correct that on Omega's 10xx movements the tightness of the cannon pinion is crucial. I've worked on the 1020 and 1022, etc. and they can be fidgety. Once its running properly,  it will be a good timekeeper.

J

[mikepilk]

You are right, the Cannon pinion and wheel are sold as a one piece unit, part #1219. 

The important lesson I've learned is how crucial a properly tensioned pinion is, and how easy it is to take apart and clean. With  any further 10?? movements I'll definitely be taking the cannon pinion off for a clean and lube 

[noirrac1j]

Following up on how to pull apart thr cannon pinion part # 1020-1219. I have discovered that an old mainspring barrel cover will fit perfectly over the cannon pinion and allow for its easy removal. You'll still need a cannon pinion remover, but theres no risk with bending the center wheel. The pics show a new cannon pinion which I pulled apart to lubricate-- too.much friction.