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How are these dial markers applied, and how can they be removed?


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Hi all,

I got kinda jealous when I read a bunch of posts about people using Photoshop or InDesign to mock up dials and print them on decals etc... I mean, I know the real way to refinish a dial is to send it to the professionals, but I've been wanting to try to make some of the cheap and cheerful Bulovas I do be a bit more presentable before I wear them... Been wanting to try some diy approaches, but I always get stopped by the first task: removing the dial markers / indices.

The few posts I've read about diy dial restoration speak about using a pin or tweezers to push the dial markers out from the back... but the vintage Bulova dials I see have totally smooth brass backs with no sign of marker feet or anything... so how do the dial refinishers remove them? Are they riveted on somehow? are they held on by varnish or something??? Anybody know?

 

Here's a pic of the kind of thing I'm talking about - hopefully someone out there knows how the dial people remove these little markers (and replace them)... inquiring minds want to know :)

 

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Attachment-1.thumb.jpeg.e5449226a0aed907ceedf7a8e9f42a87.jpeg

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You cant remove the markers a great deal of Bulova watch dials are embossed or stamped out using a die much in the same way coins are produced if they could you would see where the pins for the numerals have been soldered on the back of the dial

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huh... ok, thanks for the response! there are definitely no pins or soldering marks or anything, just a smooth brass back. so having the dials be one piece kind of makes sense, but on the other hand, the markers are clearly gold or gold plated, and the rest of the dial is brass... so they certainly look like different pieces. also, I thought that International Dial removes and replaces these markers, since the dials I've had them do come back with clearly the same markers in place... and yet the rest of the dial has been stripped down and re-printed... I don't know, maybe they do the re-printing with these dial markers in place, and not removed????

I'd love to just ask International Dial how they do this, but I don't think they'd actually answer me! B)

Edited by radiumgirl
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dial restoration is a separate  skill.  usually farmed to craftsman like " Kirk dial".  AND often criticized by the perfectionists.  i suggest you "try your hand"  at it.!    BE WARE  the radum dials !   some  watch makers will scrape them for you.  vin

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Yes, I have had several dials done by International Dial (only when the original dial was just sooooo destroyed it was impossible to wear, and never on an expensive watch)... I think what they do is pretty magic, though of course if you look under a loupe or microscope you can see flaws and inconsistencies... but it usually doesn't bother me. Of course, it would be amazing to be able to do your own dials, because there are several watches I would like to wear that just "aren't worth it" when it comes to dial restoration... International Dial costs around $50 / dial these days, and Kirk Dial is about double or triple that!

I was thinking of trying to do something with waterslide decals that you print on your computer... but the raised markers make it impossible to do anything except possibly paint it by hand (which would probably turn out awful unless I took a course in micro-painting!). but yeah, I'm sitting here trying to think of a way to "try my hand" at dial restoration... how much does a pad printer cost these days???? :D:D:D

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17 hours ago, vinn3 said:

dial restoration is a separate  skill.  usually farmed to craftsman like " Kirk dial".  AND often criticized by the perfectionists.  i suggest you "try your hand"  at it.!    BE WARE  the radum dials !   some  watch makers will scrape them for you.  vin

As for being aware of radium dials - yeah, I'm pretty aware of them. check out my user name!!!!!!  :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

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you know, it's funny you should ask that... I worked for years as a biochemist and we used a lot of P32, so of course I had to learn all the OSHA safety regulations for handling radioactive materials etc... but I'm retired now and I didn't take any of the geiger counters home from the lab... but I understand there's actually an app for that! If you go to http://www.radiation-watch.org, I think they've developed a little plug in device that goes on your iPhone and turns it into a rough kind of geiger counter... I don't think it's very good at picking up gamma, but I'm not sure, I'd have to read the specifications more closely... but it might not be a bad investment if it's not too expensive... I mean, I'm really careful but I do see a lot of the old radium dials, and sometimes the crystals are either smashed up or gone, so it might be good idea to monitor my work area more closely...

anyway, I take it from the mostly thundering silence that no one knows how these dial markers are removed????? or perhaps wls1971 is absolutely correct and the numbers are embossed and not removable... so how does International Dial do such a good job reprinting these? I guess the pad printer just prints right over the embossed numbers...? hmmmmm....

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They'll be embossed just as wls1971 says.

Good little article here if you're interested: http://www.timezone.com/2014/03/04/the-differences-between-applied-and-embossed-numerals-by-paul-delury/

With pad printing using a flexible medium to transfer the ink then, yes, small embossed reliefs on the dial should not present a problem. Also very likely that the embossed numbers themselves are hand finished in some way.

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thanks WatchMaker - (and thanks wls1971) - that's a great article! now I get it... so, these markers are definitely embossed! alright, so if I were to 'try my hand' at dial resto., then I need to try to find a way to print / paint / decal the dial without removing the markers... you know I'm only half kidding about getting a pad printer... if you think about it, it's $50 a throw at International Dial, and twice as much at Kirk... so a $400 pad printer would pay for itself in no time... though obviously the hard part is not the pad printer but rather the plates... hmmm. I mean, if you're going to sell the watch, you don't do diy, you go to the pros, but I don't really sell my watches, I madly collect them, and then try to wear all of them! so I would only do my own dials on cheaper watches that wouldn't get any wrist time cuz their dial is a mess... i'm wondering if waterslide decals would work somehow... ok, lots to think about! thanks everyone for the help / advice!

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FWIW, I know International Dial uses a silk screen process to refinish the dials. That's probably why you can see imperfections under the loupe. They have an extensive library of screens for different dials. However, I don't know how they mask the numerals, name, etc. unless they apply some substance to protect those during the process. But, I have had dials come back with gold numerals enhanced as well. I've often thought about how to go about it, but never had the time to work on it.

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