Ultrasonic Vs Watch Cleaning Machine

[clockboy]

If anyone has been reading my posts on my L&R watch cleaning machine will know that the dam thing broke and it now needs a new or re-wired basket motor. The dilemma I have is do I have this machine re-furbished or do I go back to using ultrasonic cleaners. I used a ultrasonic cleaner for years with a water based cleaner and it was really good for clocks.

However I have learn't the hard way that watches really need to be absolutely, spotlessly clean and so I changed from water based to Elma and it really did make a difference. However changing from the cleaner solution to rinse solution and then the drying of the parts is a real pain.

So do I purchase another ultrasonic cleaner so I have one for the cleaning solution and one for the rinse or do I bite the bullet and have the L&R fixed. Anyones thoughts would be most appreciated.

[WillFly]

I personally think the asking price for getting the damned L&R fixed seems pretty high. And, when fixed, will it go wrong again? Who knows... You might want to cut your losses and get rid of it for what you can - then, when you have funds, buy a good s/h one or a new one.

[clockboy]

Thanks Will,

I have limited funds so what way I jump has got to be for the longish term. I looked at Cousins and the cheapest cleaner is £7k which is right out of my price range. In your opinion do the dedicated watch cleaning machines clean better than the ultrasonic or is just these machines are easier to use when cleaning several watches.

[WillFly]

Thanks Will,

I have limited funds so what way I jump has got to be for the longish term. I looked at Cousins and the cheapest cleaner is £7k which is right out of my price range. In your opinion do the dedicated watch cleaning machines clean better than the ultrasonic or is just these machines are easier to use when cleaning several watches.

I think if you're a fully professional watch repairer, doing a fair number of watches on a regular basis, then it might make sense to aspire to a dedicated watch cleaning machine. If less than that standard, then perhaps a second thought about that... If you bought a Cousins machine (for example), would that £7k get recouped in any way - or would you have a very expensive hobby!

 

Tha analogy, for me, is with guitars. I have 4 that I use in a (nowadays) semi-professional capacity, i.e. I earn money with them on a reasonably regular basis. They cost me a total of about £3,500 - but I've paid for them all by playing gigs. Now, there's more romance and fun in a guitar than a watch cleaner, :D so I might have bought them anyway! But, on a strictly utilitarian basis, the economics have worked out for me.

[clockboy]

Thanks Will,

Food for thought. I started repairing clock/watches just as a hobby but this thing is growing so I need something that is going to reliable.

[Geo]

All you need is one ultrasonic cleaner. Put water in the machine and have separate jars with your preferred solutions in them. All you have to do is place the jars into the water and the vibrations will penetrate the glass and clean the parts.

[Blacklab]

All you need is one ultrasonic cleaner. Put water in the machine and have separate jars with your preferred solutions in them. All you have to do is place the jars into the water and the vibrations will penetrate the glass and clean the parts.

I second that. It does work.

[clockboy]

Does this method clean as well as a dedicated watch cleaning machine. The other issue I have is drying the parts after the clean & rinse.

 

I did try this method once but thought that the cleaning was not as thorough as having the parts in their own baskets, I presumed it was because the ultrasonic effect had been reduced.

[emso]

I would prefer an elma rm-90 but also the elma 900 which mark owns is doing the job great.

Especially for a hobbyst

br

emso

p.s: sent from my s****y phone so sorry for typing mistakes :-)

[bobm12]

I don't have any experience with the Elma or similar, but I simply use an ultrasonic jewelry machine as in a previous post. I fill it with water and have beakers with the solutions that go one or two at a time -- depending -- in the water. I don't think this is good for volume unless buying 2 or 3 of this $32 machines. I'll illustrate later with pictures.

 

Note: if using 100 ml beakers you could use 2 at a time in one machine but less cleaning baskets and no big basket (for easy handling). Therefore the 3 machine idea. Notice that 3 x $32 = $96 way under any other system.

 

What is important is the pre cleaning and post cleaning process. I'm very picky so I peg all the jewels before cleaning and brush with a rust bursh (fiberglass) if necessary since I'm also inspecting the parts. Only then I clean them. After cleaning and inspecting again, I blow dry by hand and "apply" rodico. Evidently, this method is very effective but not practical for volume (slow). I only have one ultrasonic cleaner, maybe with 2 or 3 dedicated for: cleaning, first rinse and final rinse the process can be sped up...One thing is for sure, my system is easy on the pocket.

 

This is what I use with very good results:

 

16 mm and two 23 mm cleaning baskets inside

Big Basket that fits

400ml beaker which holds

either extra fine L&R cleaning solution or

L&R #3 rinsing solution

 

All will go into the GemOro jewelry cleaning machine filled half way with water --> 3 cycles each = 9 min.

Total cleaning time (idealy): 3 x 9 min x 3 stages (cleaning, rinsing, rinsing) = 1 hr 21 min per batch. Using 1 machine!

 

,

, or

 

Having 3 sets like the outlined above allows for cleaning and both rinsing cycles at once. The most expensive items: Bergeon cleaning baskets #4734 and #4735 $33 and $35 respectively and really nice). Alternatively, the indian/chinese/whatever made baskets are about $5 to $8 ea.

 

But 3 machines require a little more space too! Again, this is my system and it works really well for me as a hobbyist. Just a thought...

 

 

[clockboy]

Thanks Bob,

If I stick with the ultrasonic method I will purchase a new machine that has a sweep action for the clean and use my other machine for the rinse. However the drying will still be an issue in the time it takes and if not dried (which has happened) completely can cause other issues.

[Mark]

My two pennies worth:

Regarding watch cleaning machines. I used to use L&R's for years and years and loved them but they do have their own problems.

After mine started playing up I decided to get a manual machine (non ultrasonic) to see the difference. And to be fair I picked up a really good, clean Elma super elite off eBay for next to nothing (£40) and I love it.

The timer is useful but I use the countdown timer on my iPhone to let me know when to move the basket round.

When used with the fluids I use the watch parts come out spotless.

I have a good ultrasonic machine but I use that mainly for watch cases.

I am very happy with my setup.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Geo]

However the drying will still be an issue in the time it takes and if not dried (which has happened) completely can cause other issues.

When I have finished rinsing the parts in clean water, I immediately put them into a container filled with Isopropyl alcohol to absorbs any residual water. The parts are the placed on a piece of kitchen towel and gently blow dried with a cheap hair drier. The drying process only takes seconds.

I am doing watch repairing as a hobby and as such I'm not needing to deal with volume work, so this is a good cheap and effective way for me.

[clockboy]

Thanks guys.  Lots of food for thought 

[Lee]

I have both, the Ultrasonic I use for cases & straps & the watch cleaner I went down the cheap route buying of ebay as I'm expanding into watch servicing & felt at the early stage I didn't know what I wanted! however its been on the bench a year & I like it!

 

bit of powder coating, a rewire & some details & it looks pleasing on the eye & presentable. If your used to what you have, repair it.

 

 

[Geo]

If your used to what you have, repair it.

That's what I like to see Lee, attention to detail, not just repaired but refurbished to a high standard!

Well I had a bit of success with my broken ultrasonic cleaner this morning. I hauled it apart and checked every push on connector just in case the ultrasonics had loosened anything. The result is a now have a fully functioning unit again!

Edited August 8, 2014 by Geo

[bobm12]

Hats off to you guys, I'm getting good at this stuff too but I need more training. I had a Casio MMA-200W (see my post) and it broke. I took it apart and now I have two...(but they don't work). :D Just an American morning joke (I'm not fully awake yet, second cup of coffee coming from the kitchen(mmm, no drinking-coffee smiley)!

 

Great job Lee, I admire your attention to detail and resourcefulness!

Edited August 8, 2014 by bobm12

[clockboy]

After a lot of thought and looking at my bank account I have decided to have the L&R totally re-furbished. The re-furbish will include motor re-wired with new three core wire,new microswitch and earthed. The main body to be to re-painted & new hydraulic seals fitted + newly manufactured ultrasonics which includes a new circuit board & new transducer assembly.

£1600.

As a matter of interest according to the Guy the new £7k machine for sale at Cousins only ultrasonics the first jar but the Vari-Matic ultrasonics all three jars.

Edited August 8, 2014 by clockboy

[Geo]

Now that is commitment!

[bobm12]

Like having a better, proven, like new machine for 1/3 of the price. Good move!

[clockboy]

Hopefully it,s my last big spend.

 

I was surprised that when talking to the guy who is doing the re-furb that the old L & R vary-matics are not earthed. Thats why when it went bang it had blown the house fuse. 

[bobm12]

Hopefully it,s my last big spend.

 

 

I'm always saying that to myself (and to the wife sometimes) but the truth of the matter is there are many other toys out there begging to be bought!...and then you have all the glittering Bergeon creations...

 

No matter, it's only money! Enjoy life to the fullest, as I said before, you made the right decision.

[Mark]

I'm always saying that to myself (and to the wife sometimes) but the truth of the matter is there are many other toys out there begging to be bought!...and then you have all the glittering Bergeon creations...

No matter, it's only money! Enjoy life to the fullest, as I said before, you made the right decision.

This is very true in my experience :D

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[clockboy]

You are making me feel a little better about the spend but to do a half decent job you have to have the correct tools. I just hope this really the last big spend.

It will be a few weeks before completion as I am away soon to foreign parts and so is the repair guy.  

[DJW]

It's no fun having to pay for something that was not anticipated, but the fact remains that you'll have a very nice, professional grade tool when it's refurbished. And, believe me, it will all be worth it once you find out how much time this will save you on servicing movements!

 

Please post some pictures when you get it back so the rest of us can bask in your glory!