A Couple of 7002 Seiko Divers

[RyMoeller]

Friends and family have taken an interest in some of the watches I've serviced and since they've only known Quartz pieces I thought I'd fix something up for them for the holidays. So I purchased a couple of Seiko divers a few weeks back off of eBay with the intent of getting them back into spec.  One came from the Philippines and the other India and both were in a bad way based on the sellers' images.

The first (from the Philippines) turned out to be a pretty good deal as it the entire movement and case was salvageable.  It was nothing special to look at the start, that's for sure, but it will spiff up pretty nice in the end.

Unfortunately, the picture here (in the condition it arrived) hides the fact that one of the dial feet has gone missing.  The correct solution to this problem is to solder the foot back in place but me being a fool with a soldering iron I opted for a strong two part epoxy instead.  

The dial may or may not be original but it's in fair shape and needs only to have the luminous paint removed and reapplied (I've not done this before so we'll see how it goes).  The hands will be polished and replated as they are a real mess.

The movement is in excellent shape and has sprung back to life with a proper cleaning.  The only part of that endeavor which was out of the norm was the removal of "dial glue" from the movement with a bit of acetone.

I'm currently just awaiting the replacement bezel insert and a new 2.25mm watch crystal to finish this up.

Unfortunately the watch from India- well that was a whole 'other story!

It was clear right off the bat that there was an issue with the dial as it sits crooked in the case.

I thought this was the result of another missing dial foot but it was much worse than that- both feet are missing although it may not have mattered because the wrong movement was in the case as well.  The diver should have a 7002 (17 Jewel Automatic with Date) movement but instead has a 7019 (21 Jewel, Automatic, Day-Date) fitted.

Close examination revealed a bit of (ahem) over-oiling?

Just when you think you've seen the worst case of excess lubrication in a watch movement a new case comes along.

I'm still only about halfway through this repair so I'll follow-up with some images as they come.

With the dial feet lost and the dial bathed in thick oil, I considered it a lost cause and proceeded unafraid with a cleansing using isopropyl alcohol- it actually cleaned up fairly nice but will need quite a bit of work to be considered "good enough" for daily use.  Some foolish person apparently tried to remove the lime using car keys or some such tool and scratched the dial terribly.  (sigh)

I've since finished servicing the 7019 movement although the mainspring had failed and I'm not certainly I'll bother with a replacement as the movement will probably just be flipped to offset the cost of the proper 7002 movement.

More to come soon...

[clockboy]

I have serviced/refurbed quite a few of these movements. The issue is normally parts as they are now becoming increasingly rare. The parts that are available are normally generic. One thing you should check before getting to far into the service is make sure the screw down crown works as I have encountered them with the thread damaged. The other issue I have noticed is the amplitude is never very high a reading of between 220° & 250° in normal. 

[RyMoeller]

12 hours ago, clockboy said:

I have serviced/refurbed quite a few of these movements. The issue is normally parts as they are now becoming increasingly rare. The parts that are available are normally generic. One thing you should check before getting to far into the service is make sure the screw down crown works as I have encountered them with the thread damaged. The other issue I have noticed is the amplitude is never very high a reading of between 220° & 250° in normal. 

Thanks for the insight @clockboy. The amplitude of the serviced movement came in below 300 degrees, which is unfortunate but not unexpected as I reused the original mainspring; I'll have to recheck it but I'm pretty sure it came in between 260 and 270. I've done one other Seiko movement (2206) which also had less than 300 degrees of amplitude but it was pretty consistent in all positions.

I double-checked the stem tubes on both and the crown does thread properly (whew!), at the time of purchase this was one of the few assurances I had from the sellers; from what I've read it sounds like it's not possible to replace a bad stem tube.

So far these have been great fun to work on even though they are in rough shape. In my limited opinion, Seiko movements are very well engineered and use the minimal number of parts.  Wire springs (which I distaste greatly) don't occur too often either.  Best of all, the holes on the plate for bridge screws are shouldered which makes properly indexing the bridges very easy.

[jdm]

6 hours ago, RyMoeller said:

The amplitude of the serviced movement came in below 300 degrees, which is unfortunate but not unexpected as I reused the original mainspring; I'll have to recheck it but I'm pretty sure it came in between 260 and 270. I've done one other Seiko movement (2206) which also had less than 300 degrees of amplitude but it was pretty consistent in all positions.

Not unfortunate on a Seiko. As Clockboy mentioned, between 240 and 250 is normal after just a few years of use. 300 is virtually never seen,, but check https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/4569-6r15-amplitude-record/ for an exception. At 220 (with a good pattern) they still keeps good time. Note that 70, 7S, 4R, 6R all share the same escapement design, in fact  parts are interchangeable.

Also, pendant tubes can be replaces on divers, but requires milling/drilling and custom fixtures. Unless you have the equipment ready, is not worth for the value of the watch.

Edited November 24, 2017 by jdm

[anilv]

The 7019 movement is a bit more 'upmarket' compared to the 7009 as it has more jewels. While it doesn't significantly affect the running on either movements when new , I would imagine the watch with more jewels would show less wear, everything else being equal of course!.

If you have a spare 7xxx series mainspring handy I would clean and assemble the 7019... kinda of like a Q-watch.

Anilv

[RyMoeller]

11 hours ago, anilv said:

The 7019 movement is a bit more 'upmarket' compared to the 7009 as it has more jewels. While it doesn't significantly affect the running on either movements when new , I would imagine the watch with more jewels would show less wear, everything else being equal of course!.

If you have a spare 7xxx series mainspring handy I would clean and assemble the 7019... kinda of like a Q-watch.

Anilv

Well, I'm certainly keeping the option on the table.  The original intent was to restore the watches back to the original specification which would mean having the "correct" movement inside.  I was hopeful that the only non-original parts would be the bezel rings.  The 7002-700J was intended for a family member who has a particular affinity to things made in Japan.  In this case the 7019 movement would still work as it was made in Japan (as apposed to Singapore) so I may end up going that route after all.  It's a fine movement with cap jewels on the escape wheel and fourth wheel.

I'm still routing around for a mainspring though. 

[RyMoeller]

I thought I've give a quick update on this project as tomorrow is the big day and I haven't made a peep since November.

In the meantime, I received a replacement 7002 movement for the Seiko 7002-700J which was originally received with an improper 7019 movement inside.  I also found a replacement mainspring for the 7019 movement (in Spain) and have cleaned and serviced the it returning it back to good working order.

The replacement 7002 movement is the properly marked JAPAN (as opposed to SINGAPORE) version so this will still be a proper 7002-700J watch, but sadly the dial proved to be damaged beyond repair.  Both dial feet had fallen off and the paint was ruined by whomever scrapped off the lume.  I did manage to clean the oil off though.

I cleaned and serviced the movement and found only one bad part- the Pawl Lever for the autowinder which had lost one of its claws.  A replacement was readily available from Jules Borel and the movement is again beating away.

Interestingly this 7002 movement came equipped with the Day Jumper and Day Finger that you would expect to find on the 7019 movement.  I'm not sure why that was the case since the 7002 has no Day Wheel but there you go.

Unfortunately one piece the replacement 7002 movement was missing was the Holding Ring for the Dial.  This plastic ring sits between the dial and movement and keeps the dial from pressing against the Date Wheel.  The holding ring from the 7019 movement had broken into seven pieces and was beyond repair.  Replacements are hard to come by but I did manage to secure one just the other day but alas, it will not arrive in time for Christmas.

Regardless I powered on and reassembled the case along with a nifty oyster style bracelet.

As I've stated before, the bezel ring is an aftermarket replacement but the rest of the case is original.  Both cases were the old style with a spring and ball bearing serving as the bezel click.  On the 700J case the ball bearing had popped out but I was able to reseat it and the bezel rotates just fine.

The 7002-7000 watch came together with a brand new replacement dial and hand set.  The dial and hands are aftermarket I believe but look quite good just the same.  I have a replacement dial and hand set for the 7002-700J as well and also have a proper original dial that is in route.  I haven't decided which will go on the watch as of yet.

Although I'm a bit bummed one watch isn't ready yet I'm still pleased with the project.  My brother will be getting the 7002-700J when it's all done and I'm sure he'll be fine waiting another few days for the finished product.  He will be a bit anxious when he sees the one that is done though.

Happy Holidays!

[AdvocatusDiaboli]

Can you share with me what bracelets will fit the 7002-7009? I have a 1990 model still in good shape and I would like to put a stainless bracelet on it.  Will it take an SKX bracelet?

[jdm]

51 minutes ago, AdvocatusDiaboli said:

Can you share with me what bracelets will fit the 7002-7009? 

Already asked and answered at