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A Hobbyist's Watchmaking Shopping List

PadraicB

By PadraicB
in Watch Repairs Help & Advice

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PadraicB WRT Addict

PadraicB

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Presented in all its costly glory for your comment. Prices courtesy of Cousins UK.

Basic Tools5 Compartment Storage Box                           £1.329 Piece (Straight) A*F Swiss Screwdrivers           £41.68Non Swiss Screwdriver Sharpener                     £3.22	Square India Stone on Wooden Base, Indian           £9.26	No. 2.5 (Mag x4) Eyeglass                           £5.61Eyeglass Holder, Indian                             £1.90Dumont Dumoxel No. 2, Stainless Steel Tweezers      £17.50"3" Tweezers, Vetus Brass Tweezers                  £3.17	Component Probe in Plastic, Bergeon 6436            £2.19295 x 180mm, Flexi-Mat                              £10.68Pith-wood Discs, Indian                             £2.15Ø2.5mm Pegwood                                      £4.63Rodico (Traditional) Bergeon                        £3.32	European Rubber Dust Blower                         £4.83	Disassembly8¾ to 19 Ligne, Bergeon 4040P Movement Holder       £13.16Case Knife, Chinese                                 £4.83Jaxa-style Opener - Single Handle                   £8.73Spring Bar Tool                                     £7.26	Hand Remover, Generic Branded                       £8.73 	Dial Protectors, Bergeon Swiss                      £2.88CleaningUltrasonic Cleaner                                  £40*                 2x Jars of Strawberry Jam (For the JARS!)           RecycleElma Cleaner (Watch & Clock) WF Pro (2.5L)          £29.95Elma Rinse (Watch & Clock) Suprol Pro (2.5L)        £29.95OilingSingle Oilers Wallet Set, Indian                    £6.34	3 In 1 Oil Pot, Indian                              £1.90Moebius Oil 9010/2 (2ml)                            £13.60Synthetic Grease - Moebius 9415                     £17.50Moebius 8200 Semi-Liquid Grease                     £19.40Moebius 9501 (10ml) Grease                          £38.95Moebius 9104 (2ml) HP-1300                          £14.14**Sealing Grease Applicator, A*F Swiss                £11.94***AssemblyHand Fitting Tools                                  £5.80Mainspring Winder                                   £40***** Going by some forum advice, ultrasonic cleaning can over time strip away plating on watch cases and movementparts. So I guess I'd need to go manual or get hold of an agitation only cleaning machine for any such watches.** An alternative to D5 grease and available in smaller (i.e. less costly) quantities.*** Actual grease by itself is more costly so I chose the cheaper "applicator" pads impregnated with the grease.**** A new mainspring winder set can cost almost as much as everything else put together, so away to Ebay withyou for a used/vintage set ranging from £40 to £100+ depending on whether you buy just one or a whole set ofthem. Do make sure they are not worn out.

I tried not to skimp on the important things and took the budget option where possible, but it's likely I misjudged some items or omitted some crucial handy tools. I start ordering next week for those items needed to practice taking it apart and (one hopes) getting it back together.

PhilB WRT Addict

PhilB

Posted
Posted

I've just started, I went for dismantling tools first...

 

3x A*F screw drives .8mm, 1mm, 1.2mm

Hand removers generic

Movement holder

 

I already had a magnifier.

 

Once I had the movement fully dismantled I purchased some cheap oil and started putting it back together.

bobm12 Distinguished Member

bobm12

Posted
Posted (edited)

Hi PadraicB, nice list and mostly everything is great! However, I found the plastic protectors a waist. Use a nylon bag, maybe one of the many you will be getting with your tool's order. You cover the dial with the bag and work outside the bag with your tools. Mark has videos demonstrating this technique which is practical and secure so the parts don't fly away.

 

Be careful with the oil pot. Some are porous and your valuable oil escapes who knows where. Esslinger has an inexpensive one which is a better quality, I believe Mark has one picture of it in his thread about tools, it is a 3 well type with a swinging lid, maybe it is also available at cousins.

 

As for the winders, it is nice to have one but for us hobbyists winding by hand could be a learning experience and cheaper. :)

 

For the price, I would have gotten the Bergeon oiler set, the inexpensive one but I guess the indian may work.

You could save money not buying the sharpener and the india stone since spare blades are inexpensive (I buy the bergeon ones which fit the other screwdrivers' brands.)

 

Since you already have pegwood, the plastic probe is an overkill but nice to have. And I would add a Dumoxel #5 to this list. Also I've found for my needs that the movement holder in metal from bergeon works better than the plastic. Also you may want to invest in a watch case cushion.

 

All in all, a great list and very nice put together. I've just commented on what works for me.

 

Cheers,

 

Robert

Edited by bobm12
PadraicB WRT Addict

PadraicB

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Blimey! I'm building bits up a bit at a time - in between buying watches!

 

I like planning ahead ;). There's all sorts of other considerations like having to pay delivery fees (in my case always overseas delivery) on top of every order - that can add up very fast across multiple small orders vs a handful of larger ones. I've assumed any given delivery will be around £10 at minimum irrelevant of weight so sticking to fewer orders could save me the cost of those expensive oils. Granted, that also means spending more cash upfront so any advice is welcome so I don't make any stupid choices!

bobm12 Distinguished Member

bobm12

Posted
Posted (edited)

The worst choice is to order something you would not ever use being it because you won't ever need it or because the tool doesn't work well. I've been there and believe me, with mail order stuff it is bound to happen to the best of us. However, it is better to have too many tools than too few! :)

 

This is why I'm considering buying a Bergeon Jaxa tool to replace my crappy indian jaxa type!

Edited by bobm12
PadraicB WRT Addict

PadraicB

Posted
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Hi PadraicB, nice list and mostly everything is great! However, I found the plastic protectors a waist. Use a nylon bag, maybe one of the many you will be getting with your tool's order. You cover the dial with the bag and work outside the bag with your tools. Mark has videos demonstrating this technique which is practical and secure so the parts don't fly away.

Will be sure to watch that vid!

 

Be careful with the oil pot. Some are porous and your valuable oil escapes who knows where. Esslinger has an inexpensive one which is a better quality, I believe Mark has one picture of it in his thread about tools, it is a 3 well type with a swinging lid, maybe it is also available at cousins.

Cousins UK have a three pot Indian contraption for £8 and much more sturdy looking model for £22. You get what you pay for ;). Might be worth the peace of mind though rather than risk loosing costly to replace oils to something cheap when it may cost more in the long run!

 

As for the winders, it is nice to have one but for us hobbyists winding by hand could be a learning experience and cheaper. :)

 

For the price, I would have gotten the Bergeon oiler set, the inexpensive one but I guess the indian may work.

You could save money not buying the sharpener and the india stone since spare blades are inexpensive (I buy the bergeon ones which fit the other screwdrivers' brands.)

I'll consider that. The Burgeon oiler set is just another few pounds so I'll switch that one.

 

Since you already have pegwood, the plastic probe is an overkill but nice to have. And I would add a Dumoxel #5 to this list. Also I've found for my needs that the movement holder in metal from bergeon works better than the plastic. Also you may want to invest in a watch case cushion.

 

All in all, a great list and very nice put together. I've just commented on what works for me.

When it comes to the movement holder, I'm a bit wary of getting the metal version in case it ends up depressing/scoring the movement. The plastic probe might be overkill, but I figured it was cheap and might reduce the risk of leaving any fibres on the movement.

bobm12 Distinguished Member

bobm12

Posted
Posted

Just the bergeon plastic oilers (plastic is only the handle), you know they come in a set of 4 for about US$12. Alternatively, only buy the black one, it is all you need. I use the others (heavier) for other stuff or to refill my pots but never to oil a watch.

 

Maybe I've been lucky but the metal holder has not left any marks on the movements I've worked on so far and it kind of holds better. Normally you don't really tighten it much. It feels solid under your tools while the plastic one kind of feel different, shaky like or something, I can't describe it but definitely not the same. I own both and the horotec which, to me, is a notch inferior to the bergeon. I have put a "traveling kit" together and use the horotec in that one while the plastic bergeon is gathering dust in a drawer.

 

Yes, the 4 oil pots made in france for about 22.00 looks good but I think the indian one for about 8 would work too. The one I'm staying away (I got one regretfully) is the round one. As a matter of fact, I'm glad we are talking about it, I just ordered the french one.

 

As for the plastic stick, you are right, it doesn't contaminate that's why sometimes it is useful. The pegwood, that, you can't live without since jewels need to be pegged to remove any oil stuck to them.

 

Also, if you are not picky, chech on Novodiac Type B oil, it is supposedly interchangeable with Moebius 9010. I'm going to experiment with it soon since I can get it here for 1/5 the price of the other.

 

In any case, good luck with your orders and happy watchmaker...and mostly, thank you for sharing!

SSTEEL Distinguished Member

SSTEEL

Posted
Posted

Decent list there, and one which is very similar to how I started out.  Even though I am pretty much set up now in way of tools, and equipment, there are still many things on my list to invest in, a mini lathe being one of them.

 

14906764445_86b16739ba.jpgMore storage at last by Micky.!, on Flickr

PadraicB WRT Addict

PadraicB

Posted
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Posted

Decent list there, and one which is very similar to how I started out.  Even though I am pretty much set up now in way of tools, and equipment, there are still many things on my list to invest in, a mini lathe being one of them.

Love your Flickr stream by the way. I think I will avoid tinkering with any Rolex myself...ever ;). Those are some beautiful watches you work on.

  • 2 weeks later...
PadraicB WRT Addict

PadraicB

Posted
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Posted

Put through a first order and awaiting delivery on Thursday. My first victim, a Seiko 9S26C, awaits its fate ;). Thanks for the comments and suggestions!

bobm12 Distinguished Member

bobm12

Posted
Posted

Keep us posted of your progress PadraicB. I believe you meant the 7S26? If so, you will need a philips screwdriver 1.2mm, not sure if the proprietary from Seiko ($10) is the only one that works but the regular ones are like $2. In any case, happy watchmaking!

PadraicB WRT Addict

PadraicB

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7S26C - it's the one without that irritating philips screw :). A little reading pointed me towards that design change luckily. There's an exhibition style case back so I could be sure of the movement before purchase.

 

In a surprising turn of efficiency, the delivery arrived this afternoon at the local post office where I picked it up. Standard signed delivery is usually a week long wait at times. So I have everything unpacked, and ready to go tomorrow. I had to try something, so I took the Jaxa tool for a spin and it opened the Seiko case (bracelet removed) without any issues. A little fiddly to get just the right fit with that third prong driven by the handle, but it works. I sprung for two 8 compartment stackable trays with a lid since my original choice was looking woefully insufficient after some more thought. The lid goes on with a sort of key for better security, should there be any accidental spills while I take baby steps.

bobm12 Distinguished Member

bobm12

Posted
Posted (edited)

Good move!

 

By the way, the philips screw may be present even in the C version, just careful with the date ring holder, if it doesn't come out without much effort (it will come loose after all screws are removed -- 3 normal ones and maybe the one philips) then there is still the philips screw holding it down. It is a tiny little screw you might want to have special care with (don't loose it, pray for it not to jump away).

 

Other parts you may want to handle really carefully are the reduction wheel holder which is removed/reclipped with tweezers and could be a royal pain until you get the hang of it,

 

and

 

the snap for day star which can jump out (it is removed with a small screwdriver which can pottentialy damage the day star with disc upon removal) I put my finger on top to block it from jumping. Once the day star with disc is damaged there is no fix for it. Also make sure you don't put it upside down during re-assembly.

 

Although all the screws are for a 1.4 screwdriver, some have different lenghts. Mainly 3 sizes are to wit: the longest ones for the bridges, the shortest ones for most everything and 2 medium size (part # 12168) for the keyless works. If you use the mid sized ones where they don't belong problems will arise...

 

Careful with the day date corrector wheel and the intermediate wheel for date corrector, they are plastic and flimsy. Make sure there is no tension when they actuate by checking the works manually (gently with tweezers). If they get broken cousinUK has them.

 

Just a bit of my experience with this movement. Hope it helps!

 

7S26A_7S36A.pdf

Edited by bobm12
Gary Super WRT Addict

Gary

Posted
Posted

Hi PadraicB, nice list and mostly everything is great! However, I found the plastic protectors a waist. Use a nylon bag, maybe one of the many you will be getting with your tool's order. You cover the dial with the bag and work outside the bag with your tools. Mark has videos demonstrating this technique which is practical and secure so the parts don't fly away.

 

Be careful with the oil pot. Some are porous and your valuable oil escapes who knows where. Esslinger has an inexpensive one which is a better quality, I believe Mark has one picture of it in his thread about tools, it is a 3 well type with a swinging lid, maybe it is also available at cousins.

 

As for the winders, it is nice to have one but for us hobbyists winding by hand could be a learning experience and cheaper. :) Anyone have a video of doing this by hand?

 

For the price, I would have gotten the Bergeon oiler set, the inexpensive one but I guess the indian may work.

You could save money not buying the sharpener and the india stone since spare blades are inexpensive (I buy the bergeon ones which fit the other screwdrivers' brands.)

 

Since you already have pegwood, the plastic probe is an overkill but nice to have. And I would add a Dumoxel #5 to this list. Also I've found for my needs that the movement holder in metal from bergeon works better than the plastic. Also you may want to invest in a watch case cushion.

 

All in all, a great list and very nice put together. I've just commented on what works for me.

 

Cheers,

 

Robert

PadraicB WRT Addict

PadraicB

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Thanks for the tips!

 

Under the false impression I was still 6 and it was Christmas morning, I continued playing last night and stripped the 7S26 of its hands, dial, date wheels, and the automatic rotor. By the time I got the balance cock removed and the balance removed and turned over, I decided to finish by removing the pallet and its bridge. Only took...2 hours. Fortunately, that philips screw was definitely not on this movement variant.

 

Wherever Mark is, he needs to stop making this look so easy in his videos ;).

 

I rechecked all the removed pieces and confirmed that, so far, I've lost not even a screw. Of course, this exercise was not without its mishaps...

 

Several dropped screws: Solved by not applying any needless downward force when unscrewing and checking every turn or half-turn to see if it was ready for the tweezers. They were just ejected and all fell straight down luckily.

One space launched crown: While I was pulling on it (with the release lever held down correctly). Found it afterwards at least. I suspect this was not a good result for whatever was preventing it coming out easily. Maybe I should have turned it a bit until it slid out easily...

Snap for the day star: Did its best to go orbital but thanks to bobm12, was blocked by a finger and retrieved. Doesn't appear harmed in any way.

 

For anyone following Nicholas Hacko's Seiko 7S26 online course/tutorial, there are a few surprises you might not be warned about. As you handle the movement, the automatic rotor will charge the mainstream enough to keep the seconds hand moving, but the process for letting it down is well after removing the hands. I just waited for the seconds hand to reach the others and pulled the lot out, but that seconds hand looks really delicate - no sign of bends or damage after removal though. The ratchet spring also pulls out a lot more than you think - it caught me by surprise the first time it disengaged and almost let the mainspring down uncontrolled. Rotating the balance cock 180 so the wheel and hairspring are on top, not hanging from the bottom, is not really described...

 

This evening, I'll work on the wheels and mainspring barrel, wrap the disassembly, and start putting it back together. To be repeated a few times no doubt!

PadraicB WRT Addict

PadraicB

Posted
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Posted (edited)

Disassembly complete! I managed to lose no parts or screws, but a few near misses.The reduction wheel holder, which clips on/off (i.e. needs a bit of force to clip off) in particular was a pain to get out. A bit of rodico held in front of the direction I was pulling it out stopped it from completely zipping away from me. I also started to do some pith stabbing with the tweezers - it was picking up grease/oil and the small screws were sticking to it. Clean thy tools regularly - lesson learned. That reduction wheel and clip were well covered with grease.

 

I've given up on the loupe holder entirely - that wire contraption doesn't hold it at a good angle for me. As it happened, I picked up how to hold it the traditional way pretty quickly. My tweezer and unscrewing skills are moving up the learning curve.

 

I managed to use all compartments in the two trays I got to keep everything well segregated. Might get a few more of those.

 

Now for the other 50% of the task - putting it all back together! Will start on that tomorrow.

 

P.S. There such a thing as a pith holder? It needs two hands since the pith is so lightweight.

Edited by PadraicB
bobm12 Distinguished Member

bobm12

Posted
Posted (edited)

Very good PadraicB, but I got bad news, there is not a 50% yet to go!

 

Sorry, but now comes the pegging of the jewels, rust brushing, cleaning of all the parts in the ultrasonic (or the machine of your preference), drying and rodico where needed, oiling and while oiling then reasembly (not to forget the diashock which is cleaned separately -- I use lighter fluid, dry in lintless paper, oil and assemble).

 

Reassembly also includes fitting the hands and placing everything in the case as it was before (or as it should be if it wasn't to your liking when you first got the watch). Also the case may need your attention previous to fit in the casse, specially the crystal and inside of the case where the movement will seat. It all should be spotless! Do not forget to lubricate the gaskets (crown and back) or replace as necessary.

 

Then comes testing and if you have a time grapher, you will spend some more time on it. Normally, you would both adjust and troubleshoot the movement and sometimes go back to disassembly either partially or completely to fix anything you detect in this step although it shouldn't be too drastic at this point!

 

But for the sake of the excersice, I'll grant 50% all right! Keep up the good work!

 

PS. Pith holder see picture below:

 

post-253-0-96636000-1417384843.jpg

 

I use a bigger piece of pithwood instead! :)

 

Sorry, couldn't resist...still high with the nurse shark of another post!

 

Edited by bobm12
PadraicB WRT Addict

PadraicB

Posted
  • Author
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Haha, true. For now, I'm holding off on the cleaning/oiling while I practice assembly/tearing down. A little repetition to climb the learning curve.

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