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Ebay flooded with Carriage clocks from China

oldhippy

By oldhippy
in All Things Clocks

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oldhippy Distinguished Member

oldhippy

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A quick look on ebay. I have found these clocks. Made in china and extremely poor in every way. Do not waste your money. A genuine French carriage clock would never have holes drilled in the bell. Hardly ever do they have a sweep second hand. The platforms are normally made of brass some are silvered. I can only assume the Chinese platforms are of a metal to look like it is silvered, they are very poor.  If you are considering on purchasing a French carriage clock you can ask me for advice and I will whiling advice.  I expect these links to disappear when there time is up on ebay.  

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Cloisonne-Enamel-Carriage-Clock-with-Twin-Bell-Chiming-Repeater/273257850972?hash=item3f9f6fe85c:g:2IAAAOSwJiJbFC2Y

 

I have no idea who made this. It is very poor quilty

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Antique-Carriage-Alarm-Clock-Brass-Complete-Working/392052641707?hash=item5b48288fab:g:5OMAAOSwhHJbCq3s

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Brass-Repeating-Carriage-Alarm-Clock-M-D-Ger/273257911846?hash=item3f9f70d626:g:CjIAAOSwSlRa7y8N

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Cloisonne-Enamel-Carriage-Clock-Twin-Bell-Chiming-Repeater/182932078625?hash=item2a979a0021:g:F74AAOSwUwFaEvpc

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-REPRODUCTION-SOLID-BRASS-CARRIAGE-CLOCK-PLATFORM-MOVEMENT/202102035369?hash=item2f0e3853a9:g:V6oAAOSws6ZZ-3ff

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oldhippy
oldhippy

A quick look on ebay. I have found these clocks. Made in china and extremely poor in every way. Do not waste your money. A genuine French carriage clock would never have holes drilled in the bell. Har

wls1971
wls1971

The biggest give a ways are very poor finish to the parts if you look at many of these Chinese fakes there is no attempt to polish surfaces that should be if you look at the edges of the plates or any

oldhippy
oldhippy

He has removed it.  These are his replies to me Question Why have you described this clock as a very rare clock saying it is buy HUGUENIN A PARIS. When it is a Chinese fake. Answer HI

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wls1971 Distinguished Member

wls1971

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It has been for a long time what really surprises me is the prices they are fetching on a regular basis and it seems a lot of dealers just dont care and list them as antique when I'm sure they know full well they are not.

Here is a miniature carriage clock movement from china very poor quality and yet as I write its at £95.00

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Miniature-Carriage-Clock-Movement-With-Enamel-Clock-Face/113024026604?hash=item1a50c1c7ec:g:XBAAAOSwdrlbCG1~

This is a real shocker as far as quality goes but the seller is listing it as a antique French clock its a turd and I said as much on the comments on his you tube video:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Perfect-French-mini-Anglaise-engraved-8-days-carriage-clock/192549610344?hash=item2cd4d9e368:g:IjAAAOSwao1bFYO2

And the video for this absolute delight:

And the following type of clock has been appearing for 4 or 5 years both in auction houses and Ebay always the same model they are crap but fetch silly money

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/French-Style-Petite-Sonnerie-Striking-Quarter-Repeater-Brass-Carriage-Clock/253505077158?hash=item3b06147fa6:g:~3kAAOSw-3FZHPJC

One of the above sold a couple of weeks ago on ebay in the u.k for £523 

 

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Tmuir Distinguished Member

Tmuir

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Wow, the enameling is that poor I wonder if its just paint and not real enamel at all.

A couple of the ones you posted though  wls1971 I would have trouble of picking as fakes though. I do like posts like this as I know carriage clocks are a minefield if you dont know what you are looking at and posts like this help people like me be able to spot the fakes from genuine ones.

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measuretwice WRT Addict

measuretwice

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To me the general proportions and aesthetics of some of the above miss the mark so that may trigger a warning bell, and some just have obvious flaws in fit and finish.....but I'd love to hear more on what you guys are seeing.

speaking for myself, I really like the details and reasons (at least the less obvious ones) for the comments, helps us beginners learn :)

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wls1971 Distinguished Member

wls1971

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The biggest give a ways are very poor finish to the parts if you look at many of these Chinese fakes there is no attempt to polish surfaces that should be if you look at the edges of the plates or any of the escapement edges they should be highley polished the Chinese ones are rough just as they have been cut, the quality of screws used is always poor french ones again are highly polished and blued the Chinese ones lack finish they are blued to black which is wrong but look dull and lifeless compared to french ones, screws are often mismatched on Chinese copys.

Ratchet wheels at the back are almost always unpolished on the Chinese copys they should be polished the casting of the case parts is rough at best, made in france on the dial would never appear on a french carriage clock.

Since I have started working on french carriage clocks even one's that would have been considered rather cheap in the 1900's basic time only with cylinder escapements and plain style of case even these are far superior and the quality can be seen.

 

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oldhippy Distinguished Member

oldhippy

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Here is a genuine French carriage clock that has enamelling.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/french-brass-and-enamelled-carriage-clock-alarm-timpeiece/382479426558?hash=item590d8ce3fe:g:~xcAAOSw9V5bEiNs

 

Here is the one I have already posted; this is the poor Chinese one. See the difference in movement quality and the enamelling. If you have a painted dial Chinese carriage clock it has been painted by a child who works in one of those sweatshops for very little.

   https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Cloisonne-Enamel-Carriage-Clock-with-Twin-Bell-Chiming-Repeater/273257850972?hash=item3f9f6fe85c:g:2IAAAOSwJiJbFC2Y&clk_rvr_id=1556090534609&rmvSB=true

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oldhippy Distinguished Member

oldhippy

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Chinese carriage clocks main plates are a lot thinner. The striking works tend to be showing on the back plate, the bell will normally have holes in them. French carriage clocks will usually have the striking works between the dial and front plate with a solid bell on the back plate. Chinese will age there cases to make them look old or as many describe them as antique. As the law goes antique does not mean a specific amount of time. Everything about these Chinese clocks compared to the French ones is poor. I am wondering how long it will be for them to come out with copies of English carriage clocks.

wis1971 has given you good details of what to look out for.

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oldhippy Distinguished Member

oldhippy

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25 minutes ago, Lenj said:

I love carriage clocks, but I do not like  Cloisonné clocks they do not appeal to me..The brass clock has the  Couaillet Freres mark, is this one a copy??

Len

 

Which one do you think is a Couaillet Freres. I can't find it. I don't see any Couaillet Freres mark.

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wls1971 Distinguished Member

wls1971

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31 minutes ago, Lenj said:

This one???

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Antique-Carriage-Alarm-Clock-Brass-Complete-Working/392052641707?hash=item5b48288fab:g:5OMAAOSwhHJbCq3s

Len

 

 

The mark on this clock is for Richard and Cie.

Disregard that there is something funny happening with ebay links I have twice pressed the link and got a diffrent clock both times? 

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dadistic Distinguished Member

dadistic

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Expired listings are being handled differently now. If you look carefully,  there is a blue bar at the top, and towards the left the word "listing" is actually a link to the original listing.

Pain in the patootie, but you can still get there.

 

 

 

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Lenj WRT Addict

Lenj

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On ‎08‎/‎06‎/‎2018 at 6:45 PM, dadistic said:

Expired listings are being handled differently now. If you look carefully,  there is a blue bar at the top, and towards the left the word "listing" is actually a link to the original listing.

Pain in the patootie, but you can still get there.

 

 

 

I hate now that you cant see the item once sold, after a while it goes completely..

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Lenj WRT Addict

Lenj

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On ‎08‎/‎06‎/‎2018 at 12:36 PM, oldhippy said:

That's not made by Couaillet Freres. It is French with a cylinder platform escapement.

Apologies... I always thought that this was the Couaillet Freres mark, is there something different to this??

 

Len

uuuuu600.jpg

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Lenj WRT Addict

Lenj

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On ‎08‎/‎06‎/‎2018 at 12:47 PM, wls1971 said:

The mark on this clock is for Richard and Cie.

Disregard that there is something funny happening with ebay links I have twice pressed the link and got a diffrent clock both times? 

They don't want you contacting the buyer once ended just in case it was not sold and you deal out side ebay..I don't like the new set up..

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oldhippy Distinguished Member

oldhippy

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This is not a fake clock.

Here is another thing to look out for. As you can see, there is no hand collet just a pin to keep the hands from moving forward. This is a sure sign the tip of the centre wheel has broken away from the original hole. A new hole has be drilled which makes the centre shorter, its too short for the hand collet.  

Look at the back plate and see all the terrible re-bushing. If this had been re-bushed correctly, you would not be able to see the repairs. Shoddy work.

You will need to look at the small photos to see.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Antique-Heavy-BOXELL-BRIGHTON-Gilt-Metal-Carriage-Clock/132671032516?hash=item1ee3cf4cc4:g:eFoAAOSwuTta9PJN

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Lenj WRT Addict

Lenj

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On ‎19‎/‎06‎/‎2018 at 2:54 PM, oldhippy said:

 

An ugly from china. Have a look at his other sales. He has some nice pieces including a lovely Table Clock.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LARGE-GILDED-REPEATING-REPEATER-ALARM-CARRIAGE-CLOCK-WITH-SEVRES-STYLE-PANELS/292607836121?hash=item4420c93fd9:g:oOoAAOSw~Q9bJuTL

They actually look cheap and nasty, love the quote..."Clock still working" are they trying to tell us something.. 

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Lenj WRT Addict

Lenj

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On ‎20‎/‎06‎/‎2018 at 1:57 PM, oldhippy said:

 

This is not a fake clock.

Here is another thing to look out for. As you can see, there is no hand collet just a pin to keep the hands from moving forward. This is a sure sign the tip of the centre wheel has broken away from the original hole. A new hole has be drilled which makes the centre shorter, its too short for the hand collet.  

Look at the back plate and see all the terrible re-bushing. If this had been re-bushed correctly, you would not be able to see the repairs. Shoddy work.

You will need to look at the small photos to see.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Antique-Heavy-BOXELL-BRIGHTON-Gilt-Metal-Carriage-Clock/132671032516?hash=item1ee3cf4cc4:g:eFoAAOSwuTta9PJN

An expensive clock once you get it imported to the UK for around £700 then work needed to put right, not worth it..

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wls1971 Distinguished Member

wls1971

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Yes thats a fake, these date variations have been appearing quite recently in auction houses, you only have to look at the poor quality of the porcelain panels, poor platform escapement and general rough finish to the movement, other fakes doing the rounds through the auction houses are miniature carriage clocks marked up as faberge complete with fake Russian silver marks and fake faberge fitted cases these are easy to spot once you have seen one they always have a imperial eagle on the top glass, another common fake are carriage clocks marked up as Elliott and Sons.

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