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My First Breakdown !

Daniel
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Daniel WRT Addict

Daniel

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I finally found a watch to practice on. It is a old watch that does not work that I found at work when we were cleaning up at our new shop. I have taken it apart and put it back together several times, and could not figure out why it was not working. So thanks to Mark, who was telling me what set up he uses for filming videos, I got the idea to look for something similar and found a microscope that hooks up to your computer. And because of this I was able to find out what I think might be the problem. Below is some pictures of what kind of watch it is and the last photo is where I think the problem might be. On the last photo which is the one of the problem, the top hole is the hole the escape wheel shaft goes into and the bottom hole is one of the holes for the trans gear. I think I am calling these correct but I am still learning. :)

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bobm12 Distinguished Member

bobm12

Posted
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Hi Daniel,

 

Those are wonderful pictures. I'm, in fact, not used to such close up view and not familiar with the movement since I'm also relatively new to watchmaking. Sorry my expertise is not up there yet.

 

Although I enjoy the detail -- pics are gorgeous --  I can't really find my way to what it is pointing at in relation to the whole. Are we looking at a piece of pivot broken inside its socket? If so, it would be necesary to peg it out. Then make sure the wheel that goes there has complete pivots and in the event of the contrary, replace it. In any case, it would be interesting to know if once fixed, the problem is solved!

 

Thank you for posting it.

Edited by bobm12
Daniel WRT Addict

Daniel

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It is the hole where it goes in but the pec is not broke in it .from what I can tell the hold is wore out from years of it running this is a cheep movement it only has one jewel in it .i look at it as a disposable watch the first pics I took just to show the maker marks . But on a noter note I got my timezone watch school lvl1 kit :)

bobm12 Distinguished Member

bobm12

Posted
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That's wonderful you got the kit! No more disposable movements for now I guess since you'll be working on the Certina.

 

On the other hand, maybe, just maybe, there might be a way to fix the Lucerne just for the fun of it.

 

In my mind, the hole has to be enlarged and a ring with the right diameter hole fitted to it. I would venture and rather than finding a metal ring I would just adapt a jewel maybe on both bridges but I don't know enough to assertain this line of though is correct.

 

There might be complications and/or problems with the shape of the original wheel pivots. I hope someone with more experience than me would comment on this "fix".

Daniel WRT Addict

Daniel

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That sounds like a good plane .just would have to find out where to get the right drill bit fir the jewel you put in it and then it would only be worth it if it dose not cost to much .

bobm12 Distinguished Member

bobm12

Posted
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I think you just ream it out to enlarge the hole to the diameter you will be getting the jewel for.

 

Somehow I believe you will also need a staking tool. It will be a good experience but probably time consuming and very exacting....and the cost might not be too much but probably not worth it because of the movement...but as a study tool I think it might, just might, be justified.

 

It is an interesting proposition after all worth some pondering.

Daniel WRT Addict

Daniel

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ok bob here is a update I found some brass bushes that I can use to fix the watch now just need the get right cutting broach and  come up with a way to press it in .

noirrac1j Distinguished Member

noirrac1j

Posted
Posted (edited)

Hi Daniel,

I looked at your pictures...They are pretty good. I have (succesfully) worked on four BFG 866 movements and I can see that the pivot hole has become keyhole shaped just as you've already mentioned. I have a spare Baumgartner 866 top and bottom plate if you want to resurrect the Lucerne without going through the considerable work of redoing the pivot holes. Let me know and I'll send it to you...just email me the particulars. The watch has an interesting dial and it would really be something to make it actually keep time again! I have a Lucerne that I worked on, but it has a Bettlach ebauche and the balance is all messed up and beats out of synch--waiting for a spare to try a transplant. And so it goes....

 

 

Oh I almost forgot to ask about the microscope...what are you using to take these close-up?

JC

Edited by noirrac1j
Daniel WRT Addict

Daniel

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o cool ty for the offer . I am not really looking to get it back going as much as just trying to lean how to fix it in case one day I have to do this to watch for someone else . I am be wrong but I don't think these watches hold a lot of value . but if I can send you any of the parts out of this one to get you going let me know . as far as I know the only thing I have found wrong is the keyholes . I have another(Lucerne) watch I am going to break down . I don't know the movement # as of yet but I don't think it is a 866 the balance wheel bridge is different in it so I am thinking it is different . I can take pic of any of the parts you may need to fix your if you want .

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noirrac1j Distinguished Member

noirrac1j

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Thanks Dan! Here is a picture of the Lucerne...I'm waiting on a transplant so I'm hoping the balance will be OK. I think the one I'm getting is a 17 jewel version--which could very well be because the BFG 866 I have worked on have been 17 Jewels--I use the 1 Jewel movements as donors to keep my Sicura watches going.

 

JC

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Edited by noirrac1j
Daniel WRT Addict

Daniel

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wow!! that is a awesome looking watch man I hope to see you get it going . I like the way the hour and min is done on it :)

noirrac1j Distinguished Member

noirrac1j

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Thanks! Yes, It looks very nice and it has a long sweeping second hand in red not shown in the picture. It runs, but like it said its all wonky and the hairspring is off balance. I saw Mark's video where he actually uses a tweezer to get a bent hairspring into the proper shape, but I'm not quite that good yet. Thank you as well for the information on the camera. I think I might get me one of those to take good close up pictures of my movements as I work on them.

 

JC

Geo Distinguished Member

Geo

Posted
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Hi Daniel, if you do decide to bush the worn pivot holes, you will have to enlarge the holes and ensure that You maintain the original axis. If you jus drill out the worn hole, the drill will wander and drill a new hole that is off axis. You will need special tools and high quality equipment to achieve what you require. Replacing a broken jewel is a lot easier than what you are considering doing.

Daniel WRT Addict

Daniel

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Ty for the reply Geo .i watched marks video on replacing a jewel and you are right that would be a better way to go but the thing is this one only has 1jewel in it lol that is on the balance bridge .so the only fix I see is the bush

Daniel WRT Addict

Daniel

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The biggest question I got now is the bush has a O.D of 1.30 mm so I am thinking I need to drill it out to the same size so it it a good friction bit ??

Geo Distinguished Member

Geo

Posted
Posted

The biggest question I got now is the bush has a O.D of 1.30 mm so I am thinking I need to drill it out to the same size so it it a good friction bit ??

That's the tricky bit as I described earlier.

Daniel WRT Addict

Daniel

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does anyone know of a USA web sit that sells Bushes ? I only found them in a kit and the other place is a UK web sit . I need a 1.30mm o.d  .60mm high with a pivot hole of .11mm

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Legarm WRT Addict

Legarm

Posted
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The biggest question I got now is the bush has a O.D of 1.30 mm so I am thinking I need to drill it out to the same size so it it a good friction bit ??

 

If the Bush/Jewel is 1.3 mm you need to ream the hole at 1.29 mm to maintain a good friction fit.

This is on ebay, May help.....

 

Edited by Legarm

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