Timex M23, reassembling problem

[bojan1990]

Hello,

I have this old Timex M23 watch which I took apart, cleaned and now I am trying to put it back. The main problem I am experiencing is that I am not able to put back the little upper spring and then fix the upper plate correctly. One way or another, the spring (marked on the photo) is just not in the right place.

After several attempts, I found service manual for this model. According to the manual, I have to remove the balance complete from the plate, assemble everything else and at the end but the balance back. This seems logical, but the balance is connected to the plate by "hairspring wedge pin". The pin is small and I am just not sure how to remove it.

I also bought the same used movement, because the idea was to simple replace it. However, the movement that I bought is gaining about 2 hours a day, which leads me to believe that the movement is pretty dirty and the oil has dissipated as well. So, I would need to take it apart again, clean and oil it. Because of my previous experience, I can not do that, since I will end up with another movement I can not put back together.

Any idea how to properly remove wedge pin? Or should I should remove the dial and hands, soak it in cleaning fluid and try to oil it from the outside? There are no jewels in this watch anyway. I understand this is a cheap watch not made to last, but nevertheless I would like to bring it back to life again.

Thanks.

 

[Pip]

I was taught that the wedge was just pushed out carefully, and from behind, with a sturdy pair of tweezers. I've not worked on the Timex movement but have tinkered with some others that have this set up. This video may help?

 

Edited August 2, 2018 by Pip
More relevant video

[bojan1990]

That is exactly what I am trying to do. I already tried before - with tweezers only, it is practically not possible to push the wedge pin out, the force is just not enough. Idea with lever is good, but my first movement is already set apart. Maybe I could assemble it again, without paying attention to the upper spring, just to form level between two plates.

[JerseyMo]

The #23 is engineered much like the #21 and #22 but use mainly in ladies watches.  Which is a good thing because there are millions of them out there that came be had for next to nothing. 

However, it was also used in men's watch models such as the Super Thin.  Removing the wedge pin is done by applying pressure to the interior of the movement.  But, really not needed.  Soak the movement in clear ammonia for 15 minutes and tap the contain now and than just to help release any debris.   Or just use ultra sonic set to 6 minutes.  Remove from liquid and blow dry on paper towel.

Next soak is in lighter fluid for same period of time and follow with blow dry.  lube pivots ( I use a synthetic that has Teflon in it.)

remove the end cap from one side of the balance and fill the cup about half way.  replace end cap.  for the other side I use a piece of an old main spring to slide some lube into the gap where the staff mates in.  use the same method to get some lube to the pallet pins.

Good luck.

 

 

[bojan1990]

Thanks. I will try to do what you said and report results. The thing is, I already remove the balance, so according to the manual, I would have to put the balance wheel back in the movement, lubricate the pivots, then slowly rotate the balance wheel, so the hairspring enters the regulator first and then fix everything with wedge pin. I will then need to lubricate pivots of the train on both sides. Not sure how to lubricate the keyless work from outside.

[JerseyMo]

yes, those pivot holes are very small.  so you also use the mainspring piece to slip some lube to the underside of the pivot area.

BTW, these are my lease favorite to work on of all Timex movements

[bojan1990]

I managed to put the balance back, before that I oiled everything. The amplitude of the watch seems good (I do not have timegrapher though so I have to watch for time over a day at least).

What I noticed is that watch stopped after maybe 14 hours. I am not sure how long the power reserve is for these movements, but it should be at least 24 hours. I thought that the mainspring had to be lubricated, although in the manual they say you do not have to do it (it is not affected with cleaning solutions, but I used acetone). I lubricated the mainspring a little bit through the holes on the upper bridge, hope it will solve the problem with the power reserve.

[TimFitz]

If you have a smart phone you don't need a timegrapher, you can download a fairly good one. I use "Clock Tuner" on Play store

[JerseyMo]

4 hours ago, bojan1990 said:

 

I have not heard of anyone sharing results of using acetone.  So, my first reaction is that since it is the base of nail polish remover it is meant to dissolve dried finishes which very well my remove the special coating Timex used on the mainsprings. 

Yes the watch should run for 24 hours at least.  So there could be an issue with the spring or somewhere else.

yes these #23 are a pest!

[lionelcanto]

Main problem with Timex is the balance wheel pivots.(cone shaped) after extended use would get blunt and causes the balance wheel to regard lessening the time it takes for the wheel to swing,hence shorter time between ticks,speeding  up the watch.If replacement of the balance wheel is not available the  ends of the staff Will  need resharpening.  

Hope information is of use.

Blessings

[lionelcanto]

Kindly note if the Timex is working faster than normal the mainspiring will run out of tension(watch will stop in less than 24 hours

[bojan1990]

It is interesting that the watch is losing time. I have nice amplitude (at least I think) but the last time I checked it lose time.

I put little more oil in the mainspring and the time reserve moved from less than 9 to 14 hours. I will try to put little more in 8 hours, to try to lubricate mainspring more evenly. Also, when watch stops I have still spring in tension, but I suppose not enough energy to keep watch running.

[JerseyMo]

One trick I learned is to watch how the ratchet wheel spins as I let down the spring prior to cleaning.

if the seems slow of sluggish it typically has some grime underside.  So it is good to remove it for cleaning and lube.

[bojan1990]

13 hours ago, JerseyMo said:

One trick I learned is to watch how the ratchet wheel spins as I let down the spring prior to cleaning.

if the seems slow of sluggish it typically has some grime underside.  So it is good to remove it for cleaning and lube.

That is nice idea, but these types of movement are not meant to be opened completely (only balance is removed and cleaned separately). I cleaned the movement three times, so I hope it is not that dirty anymore.

Good news are that the power reserve is around 36 hours now. I gradually applied oil to the mainspring through the upper plate (little by little) so I managed to lubricate it more or less properly.

However, the watch is still losing time. Around 7 minutes per day, which is a lot. I tightened the screw just enough to allow spinning the balance, since the balance spinned a little bit clumsy. Still, huge losing of time.

Any idea what I can try next?

[JerseyMo]

I was referring to parts 107 and 416.  they can be removed without undoing any of the plates.  

[bojan1990]

I will try removing and cleaning them as well. However, I still can not figure out the reason why the movement loses time.

[dnhb]

On 8/2/2018 at 8:00 AM, bojan1990 said:

Hello,

I have this old Timex M23 watch which I took apart, cleaned and now I am trying to put it back. The main problem I am experiencing is that I am not able to put back the little upper spring and then fix the upper plate correctly. One way or another, the spring (marked on the photo) is just not in the right place.

After several attempts, I found service manual for this model. According to the manual, I have to remove the balance complete from the plate, assemble everything else and at the end but the balance back. This seems logical, but the balance is connected to the plate by "hairspring wedge pin". The pin is small and I am just not sure how to remove it.

I also bought the same used movement, because the idea was to simple replace it. However, the movement that I bought is gaining about 2 hours a day, which leads me to believe that the movement is pretty dirty and the oil has dissipated as well. So, I would need to take it apart again, clean and oil it. Because of my previous experience, I can not do that, since I will end up with another movement I can not put back together.

Any idea how to properly remove wedge pin? Or should I should remove the dial and hands, soak it in cleaning fluid and try to oil it from the outside? There are no jewels in this watch anyway. I understand this is a cheap watch not made to last, but nevertheless I would like to bring it back to life again.

Thanks.

 

So glad you posted the parts diagram: I have one to reassemble. Do you have a link to the service manual you found?